Twilight of HGH looms?

[Iowanic]

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/art...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Iowanic]

Bump, for those interested,,,

[ol' aches and pains]

I thought there wasn't a reliable test for HGH, has that changed? The MLBPA doesn't think so, per this from the end of the article:

MLBPA executive director Michael Weiner issued the following statement in reaction to Thursday's announcement:

"The union's position on HGH testing remains unchanged; when a test is available that is scientifically validated and that can be administered safely and without interfering with the players' ability to compete, it will be considered".

[dl4060]

I thought there wasn't a reliable test for HGH, has that changed? The MLBPA doesn't think so, per this from the end of the article:

MLBPA executive director Michael Weiner issued the following statement in reaction to Thursday's announcement:

"The union's position on HGH testing remains unchanged; when a test is available that is scientifically validated and that can be administered safely and without interfering with the players' ability to compete, it will be considered".

I belive there is a test, but it is not supposed to be very good. From what I have heard, it is a blood test, but HGH gets out of the blood in about 24 hours. Obviously this test will not catch many people. To catch someone, they must have used within 24 hours, which is pretty unlikely.

[Iowanic]

http://www.theledger.com/article/201...1/1002&tc=omni

Isn't it comforting to have good ole Conte putting his 2 cents in(Insert sarcasm)

[lithium]

It is a little weird for him to be commenting, but on the other hand, he probably knows what he's talking about.

[Iowanic]

http://www.salon.com/wires/sports/07...ine/index.html

A bit more info.

[sturg1dj]

a couple of thoughts.

1) Just think, right now there are hundreds of chemists trying to figure out how to beat this test.

2) I love when people criticize players for not wanting blood tests. Regardless of money, who the heck wants have random blood tests for work? I am sure plenty would, but who would WANT to.

[BoweryBoys]

I thought there wasn't a reliable test for HGH, has that changed? The MLBPA doesn't think so, per this from the end of the article:

MLBPA executive director Michael Weiner issued the following statement in reaction to Thursday's announcement:

"The union's position on HGH testing remains unchanged; when a test is available that is scientifically validated and that can be administered safely and without interfering with the players' ability to compete, it will be considered".

The stuff that comes out of the mouths of MLBPA officials mouths never ceases to amaze me!
1- As if Weiner is himself an expert and would know or be the judge of what test is scientifically valid and safe.

2- As if actual experts proved a test to be valid, accurate and safe, union officials would still not fight tooth and nail against implementing the testing.

3- As if Weiner might be such an expert that he just happens to know that any kind of test at all actually comes with any realistic chance of interfering with a players' ability to compete (at least beyond a very brief allergic or illness reaction).

4- As if they wouldn't use those type excuses any way even in the face of proof that everything was safe and fine.

The horse manure out of the mouths of MLBPA officials will always be a part of the game.

[sturg1dj]

[/B]

The stuff that comes out of the mouths of MLBPA officials mouths never ceases to amaze me!
1- As if Weiner is himself an expert and would know or be the judge of what test is scientifically valid and safe.

2- As if actual experts proved a test to be valid, accurate and safe, union officials would still not fight tooth and nail against implementing the testing.

3- As if Weiner might be such an expert that he just happens to know that any kind of test at all actually comes with any realistic chance of interfering with a players' ability to compete (at least beyond a very brief allergic or illness reaction).

4- As if they wouldn't use those type excuses any way even in the face of proof that everything was safe and fine.

The horse manure out of the mouths of MLBPA officials will always be a part of the game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5405451

according to this, it doesn't even do a good job spotting HGH.

[BoweryBoys]

a couple of thoughts.

1) Just think, right now there are hundreds of chemists trying to figure out how to beat this test.

2) I love when people criticize players for not wanting blood tests. Regardless of money, who the heck wants have random blood tests for work? I am sure plenty would, but who would WANT to.

You're right, regardless of amount of money earned or profession random blood tests for work should not necessarily be a good thing or even a necessary thing. The majority of players likely would want to cooperate and at the same time wish they didn't have to take the test at all. The point is that a large part of the responsibility of having to take any tests at all lies with players and their union so it is only right to have to accept it as just another condition of employment if they want to work in that profession. If not for probable cause to have tests in the first place then maybe no tests. I really can't see a problem with any fan criticizing any player who complains of having to agree to such tests as a condition of employment because it was actions of many players that brought about testing in the first place.

[BoweryBoys]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5405451

according to this, it doesn't even do a good job spotting HGH.

And so what? because that has nothing to do with my point at all. The union will fight and complain regardless even when more qualified experts then a Michael Weiner ever prove that a test is safe, accurate and comes with no risk of injury to player.

[lithium]

This doesn't change a thing, one way or another. If the tests works as expected, and no one uses HGH anymore, well, whatever, but that will not change a thing, as hgh does not benefit baseball players. If it does not work, then it shouldn't matter for that same reason.

[Iowanic]

HGH doesn't benefit healing or injury recovery?

[lithium]

But that has to do with performance enabling, as opposed to performance enhancing.

Should we ban ice packs for pitchers, Iowanic? Because that benefits healing, doesn't it?

[Iowanic]

Conseco mentions the ability to recover from the long season as the reason why he was able to put up big numbers.
A thin line between enhancement and 'enabling'. methinx. In any case, it's against the rules. Catching and Punishing thiose that break the rules works for me.

[lithium]

Yes, it was the recovery - not the pounds and pounds of muscle he put on, that allowed him to put up big numbers.

[ol' aches and pains]

http://www.theledger.com/article/201...1/1002&tc=omni

Isn't it comforting to have good ole Conte putting his 2 cents in(Insert sarcasm)

Just as with Jose Canseco, you may not like the messenger, but the message rings true.

[Iowanic]

It's a personal quirk of mine, but I've always taken the word of drug-dealers with more then a few grains of salt....

[ol' aches and pains]

It's a personal quirk of mine, but I've always taken the word of drug-dealers with more then a few grains of salt....

Look, I don't like Conte any better than you do, but what part of his statement doesn't make sense? If, as has been posted above, HGH cycles out of your bloodstream in 24 hours, then Conte is correct, this test would be easy to beat.

[Iowanic]

Oh, agree: he probably knows as much about drug-testing as anyone: he spent enough time doing so.

[west coast orange and black]

boweryboys: The union will fight and complain regardless even when more qualified experts then a Michael Weiner ever prove that a test is safe, accurate and comes with no risk of injury to player.

agreed, bb. though the players union has publicly stated that it would welcome a test that proves to be effective, it really would rather not have hgh testing implemented. testing by urine sample is still years away, so staving off testing by blood sample effectively shields the players from hgh detection.
hgh was used by players more often in conjunction with steroid cycles, so hgh use is way down, anyway.

for mlb to be serious about ridding substance use, aggressive random testing - including out-of-season-testing - would be necessary. in other parts of the world, and with other sports organizations, such testing is much more common and even accepted. for example, le tour de france is winding down. cyclists can get a knock on the door at practically all hours, and all top finishers of the day are tested.

[west coast orange and black]

conte claims that the test is flawed. the test is not flawed. rather, it has a very short detection span. this is not splitting hairs. a testing procedure that does what it is supposed to do is just that - a working procedure... that can be improved upon.
when an athlete uses a substance with the belief that he is safe from detection simply because of time frame, he is a fool - blood samples can be and have been stored, and bettered test methods can be found and implemented at any time.
ask conte. he was breezing along 'til a bettered test came along and was implemented... without notice.

[White Knight]

A random urine test is one thing, but a random blood test is over the line and should not be legal. Would you guys like to be random blood tested? I'm 100% clean and would still refuse. I don't want to be poked.

[lithium]

I agree with the notion that random blood tests are over the line - that just seems like too much for something that isn't really a problem in the first place.