Bayonne, NJ girl throws Little League perfect game

[metfan13]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200..._game_gai.html

[Knick9]

*sighs* And she will be forgotten years down the road because of the current setup that we have in the baseball world.

I'm glad to hear that she threw a no-hitter, though. That's an impressive feat, no doubt. It's a good story for her to tell later on.

[rich]

For the uninitiated, what is the " current setup?"

[metfan13]

Originally Posted by rich

For the uninitiated, what is the " current setup?"

That she has to switch to softball because there is not organized baseball for high school age girls.

[Mattingly]

12 Year Old Mackenzie Brown Throws Out The First Pitch At Citi Field (includes video of her pitch at Citi Field, subsequent interview in the stands)

From Tuscaloosa, AL:

MAY 1: Mackenzie Brown and her perfect game

Originally Posted by metfan13

That she has to switch to softball because there is not organized baseball for high school age girls.

I had a similar discussion on another thread. Would you and others here prefer that HS girls and college women play baseball instead of softball?

I'm curious, what was the reasoning behind females playing softball instead of baseball? The so-called "so they don't get hurt" argument?

[metfan13]

Originally Posted by Mattingly

12 Year Old Mackenzie Brown Throws Out The First Pitch At Citi Field (includes video of her pitch at Citi Field, subsequent interview in the stands)

From Tuscaloosa, AL:

MAY 1: Mackenzie Brown and her perfect game


I had a similar discussion on another thread. Would you and others here prefer that HS girls and college women play baseball instead of softball?

I'm curious, what was the reasoning behind females playing softball instead of baseball? The so-called "so they don't get hurt" argument?

I don't honestly know why, but wouldn't be surprised at all if it was a prejudicial "safety" decision. Of course what started as slow pitch softball has evolved into a much faster and no safer game than baseball.

Would be great if there were opportunities for girls to continue on to high school and college baseball.

[Mattingly]

Originally Posted by metfan13

I don't honestly know why, but wouldn't be surprised at all if it was a prejudicial "safety" decision. Of course what started as slow pitch softball has evolved into a much faster and no safer game than baseball.

Would be great if there were opportunities for girls to continue on to high school and college baseball.

I personally wouldn't understand. I don't know if it's the logic of getting struck by a hardball or a wooden bat. In college, the women play basketball just the same as the men do, and to my knowledge, the only difference would be (at least in the WNBA) that the basketball is smaller. I don't think that the action in fighting for the ball is as physical with the ladies, as far as I know.

I've never heard of college women playing regular American football or rugby, so some sports may be male-only in their support.

So what are the essential differences between women's baseball and women's softball? The ball is softer, I know that. Do the women play 9 innings, as opposed to 6 for softball? Are the bats any different?

[RightEGirl]

Hi there,

I have played professionally and internationally in fastpitch softball and am currently an elite/international women's baseball player and pitcher.
The two games are quite different in strategy and field dimensions as well as tempo, but contrary to the name of the ball, softballs are not soft...in fact, they're just as hard (if not harder) than baseballs. I have played in the men's amateur baseball (MSBL) World Series in two different divisions and with both wood and metal bats.
Here are the major differences between women's softball and women's hardball:
Fastpitch Softball: windmill (underhand) pitching from 43' (college and above) at between 64-72 mph (college/pro), 60' baselines, somewhere around 220' to CF fence, no leading off, steals okay once the ball leaves the pitcher's hand. 7 innings. This is a VERY fast game.

Women's Baseball...everything is exactly the same as the men's game (including mound distance, baselines, fences, and overhand pitching), except we usually play 7 innings instead of 9. Usually we play with metal or composite bats, but occasionally you will find wood bat. The proposed pro league in Florida this year will use wood. I would say hitting in women's baseball is easier than hitting in women's softball, simply because of the 60'6" distance (vs. the 43' distance). You have longer to see the ball. In fact, it has been shown that a 64-65 mph fastpitch softball gives the same reaction time to acquire, decide, and hit the pitch as a 95mph fastball in baseball...thus, since there are no females yet throwing 95 mph (that I know of), the female baseball player has an easier time at the plate than a female fastpitch player of equal caliber.

The real differences are in strategy and pacing. The basic eye-hand coordination of fielding and throwing is similar, but longer baselines require longer throws and different throwing techniques... for example, in both men's and women's baseball, you can sometimes bobble an infield grounder and still make the out. Not so in Fastpitch at the higher levels... bobble=error with virtually zero chance of getting the runner out. The swing plane is slightly different in softball and baseball, but basic rotational hitting techniques are identical for top hitters. Softball is definitely easier for the fielders to see once the ball is hit, and although bat exit speeds are likely less in softball (most bats are engineered and certified not to exceed 100 mph exit speed), the closer distances make reaction times very similar. I know, because I have played 3B, SS, 2B, an 1B in both sports. The key difference is visual tracking of the ball...it's a little harder to see the 9" white ball than it is to see the larger Optic Yellow ball. Baseball definitely requires better running skills in my opinion. Being fast at 60' is easier than being fast at 90'.
One thing many folks don't take into consideration is that it's actually pretty silly that women, with smaller hands (in general) than men, have been pushed into softball...which has a large, harder to throw ball and actually puts more strain on the shoulder than baseball does! I know, as I give both baseball and softball lessons, and my arm is WAY more tired after throwing softballs all the time... and again..there truly is nothing "soft" about a softball (unless you're talking about one of those silly huge mush balls I've seen...like 16" or something?). So... why do some of us play baseball rather than softball? I suppose for the same reason lots of guys prefer to play baseball rather than softball... we love all the nuances of the game...the rhythm of it...the sound of wood meeting leather... all of it I suppose... They are two very different games, softball and baseball, and although I personally now prefer to play baseball (and did until I was 15 and was forced to play softball), I loved the game of Fastpitch as well. Now slow-pitch is an entirely different matter, but we can save that for another discussion... it is yet another very different game with its own merits for those so inclined.

I hope this helps,

Tiff

[Mattingly]

Tiff, this is a very good post. Highly informative, and you obviously know your stuff.

Originally Posted by RightEGirl

Hi there,

I have played professionally and internationally in fastpitch softball and am currently an elite/international women's baseball player and pitcher.

The two games are quite different in strategy and field dimensions as well as tempo, but contrary to the name of the ball, softballs are not soft...in fact, they're just as hard (if not harder) than baseballs. I have played in the men's amateur baseball (MSBL) World Series in two different divisions and with both wood and metal bats.

So you pitch in baseball? Is that against men and women? I'm just trying to get my facts straight here.

For the softballs, I was referring to the junior varsity stuff that I remember a long time ago. I haven't played baseball itself much, but those things were semi-soft and about the size of a medium grapefruit, gave a little if you squeezed it. A hardball, however, was about the size of an orange, and wouldn't compress if you squeezed into it.

I guess the reason for that was that if someone got hit in the head, they wouldn't likely get a concussion (or the school sued) if a softball was used. A hardball in the temple or forehead, however ... not such a pretty picture.

Which age group were the men you played against?

Here are the major differences between women's softball and women's hardball:
Fastpitch Softball: windmill (underhand) pitching from 43' (college and above) at between 64-72 mph (college/pro), 60' baselines, somewhere around 220' to CF fence, no leading off, steals okay once the ball leaves the pitcher's hand. 7 innings. This is a VERY fast game.

I am familiar with the windmill style that you mention. I believe that's the way Jennie Finch plays, as I remember seeing some of the ladies would pitch like that, and their bodies would shake quickly at the shoulders when they pitched quickly, due to the torque the pitching motion created.

I've never heard of a fence that close in (220' to CF). I presume that LF & RF are aobut the same. You didn't give the distances for the others. No leads, and stealing only after the ball has left the pitchers' hand is unique. Are there any balks?

Tell me, what kind of pitches do they (or yourself) throw? Curve, slurve, 2- or 4-seam heater, breaking pitch, changeup? Or do they use just a limited choice of pitches?

Women's Baseball...everything is exactly the same as the men's game (including mound distance, baselines, fences, and overhand pitching), except we usually play 7 innings instead of 9. Usually we play with metal or composite bats, but occasionally you will find wood bat. The proposed pro league in Florida this year will use wood. I would say hitting in women's baseball is easier than hitting in women's softball, simply because of the 60'6" distance (vs. the 43' distance). You have longer to see the ball. In fact, it has been shown that a 64-65 mph fastpitch softball gives the same reaction time to acquire, decide, and hit the pitch as a 95mph fastball in baseball...thus, since there are no females yet throwing 95 mph (that I know of), the female baseball player has an easier time at the plate than a female fastpitch player of equal caliber.

Where is this proposed pro league in Florida that you're referring to? How many teams are signed on? A full squad of 25 players? 5-man .... errrr, woman rotation?

I see what you're saying about the distance from mound to home plate. So you're saying that the fast pitch pitchers throw about as hard at 43' as the baseball women's players do at 60'6" (60-65mph)?

The real differences are in strategy and pacing. The basic eye-hand coordination of fielding and throwing is similar, but longer baselines require longer throws and different throwing techniques... for example, in both men's and women's baseball, you can sometimes bobble an infield grounder and still make the out. Not so in Fastpitch at the higher levels... bobble=error with virtually zero chance of getting the runner out. The swing plane is slightly different in softball and baseball, but basic rotational hitting techniques are identical for top hitters. Softball is definitely easier for the fielders to see once the ball is hit, and although bat exit speeds are likely less in softball (most bats are engineered and certified not to exceed 100 mph exit speed), the closer distances make reaction times very similar. I know, because I have played 3B, SS, 2B, an 1B in both sports. The key difference is visual tracking of the ball...it's a little harder to see the 9" white ball than it is to see the larger Optic Yellow ball. Baseball definitely requires better running skills in my opinion. Being fast at 60' is easier than being fast at 90'.

As far as strategy, do the women baseball players make the crazy highlight reel plays that the men do? You know, the 2B player diving deep behind the bag, an acrobatic play to SS, who throws a little off-balance to a 1B who scoops it up? Or the diving catches in the OF? Or leaps to rob the longball? Do they often make the 5-4-3 around the horn play in either women's games?

When you say 9" white ball, you're referring to its diameter, correct? I figure that it must be around 3". After a quick check, I see that a baseball is measured by circumference. I've never seen the Optic yellow ball you refer to. Tennis would be the only yellow (or lime green) balls that I've seen.

One thing many folks don't take into consideration is that it's actually pretty silly that women, with smaller hands (in general) than men, have been pushed into softball...which has a large, harder to throw ball and actually puts more strain on the shoulder than baseball does! I know, as I give both baseball and softball lessons, and my arm is WAY more tired after throwing softballs all the time... and again..there truly is nothing "soft" about a softball (unless you're talking about one of those silly huge mush balls I've seen...like 16" or something?). So... why do some of us play baseball rather than softball? I suppose for the same reason lots of guys prefer to play baseball rather than softball... we love all the nuances of the game...the rhythm of it...the sound of wood meeting leather... all of it I suppose... They are two very different games, softball and baseball, and although I personally now prefer to play baseball (and did until I was 15 and was forced to play softball), I loved the game of Fastpitch as well. Now slow-pitch is an entirely different matter, but we can save that for another discussion... it is yet another very different game with its own merits for those so inclined.

For hand size, I believe you'd need hands the size of Michael Jordan or Shaquille Oneal to comfortably throw with a baseball, at least with any form of control. You simply can't control what you can't grip, is what I'm referring to.

What are the nuances of the game that women prefer in softball than baseball? For guys, I can see their considering a profession in baseball, so using a softball may not be anything of interest. Guys generally want to use what they see on TV, so that also gives more reason to try baseball. I don't know if I'd be personally as interested in a league where I couldn't steal. Fewer than 9 innings may help, however.

I guess that since many guys grew up watching baseball, their dad took them to a ballgame, that's all they know, just as kids see basketball on TV, so they play a game of hoops in the gym or the outdoor courtyard at school.

I hope this helps,

Tiff

Very easily has been helpful. Thanks again, Tiff!

[RightEGirl]

Hey Mattingly,

Thanks for the kind words about the post.

Let's see...without putting a bazillion quotes in here, I'll try to answer your questions:
1) I play in the local "men's" league in the 35+ league (we only have 18+ and 35+). I tried out for the 18+ division and am waiting to hear back if I'm "drafted." I was perhaps the 3rd or 4th best player there..maybe even 5th, out of 13 there. I committed no errors in the tryout or in the scrimmage (at both 3B and 1B), and was the player out of those trying out to get a hit in the 3-inning scrimmage game. Most of the rest of my competition were college players, and even one former minor leaguer. I suspect, however, that I will not be drafted... there is a huge bias against ANY woman playing in the younger division. In the amateur men's world series in Phoenix, I played in the 35+ division, both metal and wood. I hit .400 in the metal bat Mountain/Continental Division (most players were former college or pro players), and committed no errors at 3B in the wood division.

2) No, many of the girls throw harder than 60-65 from 60'6"...but none throw 95 mph at this point. I'm supposed to be one of the fastest, having been gunned last year at 82 mph. So what I'm saying is that even an 80 mph fastball in baseball is easier to hit than a 65 or 66 mph fastball in softball.

3) Many of us throw a whole selection of pitches. I can actually pitch from any arm angle...including a little submarine on occasion. I CAN throw the following, but what I choose depends on arm slot, the opposing batters, how I'm feeling that day, what's working, etc... 12-6 curve, slurve, slider, cutter, 4-seam, change, eephus, splitty,and sinker. The only thing you DON'T have to look for (yet) is a knuckle...I can only throw the thing about 1 out of 10 times. Many of the girls have a fastball (either 4 or 2 seam or both), a curve of some sort, and a change. I give pitching lessons, so I need to know how to throw just about everything. I pitch against both men and women depending on the tournament. The baseball is the same size and weight ball as the men use... 9" (circumference) weighing approximately 5 oz. A softball is 12" in circumference and heavier (around 6.25-7.0 oz). In softball, not everyone uses the Optic Yellow ball, but it has been widely adopted, and it's hard to find a white softball any more.

4)

As far as strategy, do the women baseball players make the crazy highlight reel plays that the men do? You know, the 2B player diving deep behind the bag, an acrobatic play to SS, who throws a little off-balance to a 1B who scoops it up? Or the diving catches in the OF? Or leaps to rob the longball? Do they often make the 5-4-3 around the horn play in either women's games?

The short answer here is yes to all of the above, except the leap to rob the long ball doesn't happen too often, as only a few of us are reaching the fence right now or have WTP. The arm strength in general is not as great, but the running speed is a little slower than men, so the plays end up being pretty much the same, just taking maybe a second longer to develop...plenty of DP's and bang-bang plays, diving catches in the outfield etc. Just as in the dead ball era in MLB, there is more of an emphasis on contact hitting, small ball, and hit placement...think of Ty Cobb's game...minus the sharpened spikes up your thigh! Women's proposed pro league...will be 4 to 8 teams the first year with (up to) 25 woman rosters. More info will be coming soon...I'm helping to develop a website for the league as we speak...look for its debut around June 1st...I will be posting info here and a link at that time.

5) Nuances of the game ..or why do we play baseball when there are no women in the pros? I think #1 is we love the game!!! Next, we know that women's ball is developing throughout the world. We may well have a small pro league in Florida this coming winter, we have international competitions, there is a Team USA as well (USA Baseball), and soon there will be club ball in colleges. There area bout 250,00 girls playing baseball in the US right now, and if they were offered the opportunity to continue with baseball most of them would choose to continue. I played until age 15, then was denied the opportunity to tryout in HS (mind you, I was an all-star in Pony League/Bronco league all the way from age 8 on up)... and was a starter on a team that won 5 consecutive league championships in SoCal (small, rural area, though), appeared in the tournament of champions twice for all of SoCal, etc....but nope...I had to play softball. Please note that I went on to have a much appreciated and wonderful softball career, but if baseball had been offered, I would have played straight through. Now, girls can play baseball in HS if they're good enough, and there are a few playing in college today. So...although we don't see female faces on FSN and ESPN in baseball, we do know it's possible to battle our way up...and we're trying. Many of us dream of at least breaking into Indy ball if the women's pro league doesn't make it. We know it's not the MLB, but it's OUR dream, and a couple of women have done it before in the States...and one in Japan is doing it now.

I'm sponsored by Akadema, 3n2 Sports, plus the local Gold's Gym and Spokane Eye Clinic. I think the fact that those companies believe in me as a baseball player indicates that someone besides just women thinks we can play and shares our dream.

Wow...I'm sure I missed something, but it's late now, and I need to run.

I'll try to answer anything further you might ask to the best of my knowledge and ability.

If you want to know more about fastpitch softball, I'm a writer/columnist for Softball West Magazine, and my columns are available at www.softballwest.com by clicking on "columns" and "Tiffany Brooks." There are about three years' worth if you're bored! : ) I can also recommend www.internationalsoftball.com (International Softball Federation -- a good source of info worldwide for both men's and women's softball) and for the best forum, www.ultimatecollegesoftball.com If you click on "forum" you get lots of choices...like here... "Beyond College Softball" thread gets you pro and international discussions. If you want to know more about women's baseball, you can start at my page at http://www.checkswing.net/profile/RightEGirl where there is a news clip and a couple of radio interviews, then follow-up by reading my blog about the North American Liberty Belles, the international elite women's team that I'm the Co-Founder/Co-Organizer of (and a player on) at: http://www.checkswing.net/profiles/b...-international. There are some YouTube clips on there of our team playing Korea. That'll get you started anyway! Happy reading!

Best,

Tiff

[Mattingly]

Originally Posted by RightEGirl

Hey Mattingly,

Thanks for the kind words about the post.

Tiff, well-earned praise! I saw some solid and very useful info there. My apologies for the delay in the reply, since my workload in the office has been heavy, and one of my other hobbies is quite time-consuming (billiards).

Let's see...without putting a bazillion quotes in here, I'll try to answer your questions:

1) I play in the local "men's" league in the 35+ league (we only have 18+ and 35+). I tried out for the 18+ division and am waiting to hear back if I'm "drafted." I was perhaps the 3rd or 4th best player there..maybe even 5th, out of 13 there. I committed no errors in the tryout or in the scrimmage (at both 3B and 1B), and was the player out of those trying out to get a hit in the 3-inning scrimmage game. Most of the rest of my competition were college players, and even one former minor leaguer. I suspect, however, that I will not be drafted... there is a huge bias against ANY woman playing in the younger division. In the amateur men's world series in Phoenix, I played in the 35+ division, both metal and wood. I hit .400 in the metal bat Mountain/Continental Division (most players were former college or pro players), and committed no errors at 3B in the wood division.

Is this an amateur or semi-pro league? Do you meet at a college, Minor League or indeendent league field? If the 18+ league is open for gender, then is it considered a stepping stone or supplement towards college or Minor League playing? Are there any scouts routinely there why the bias against women? How many women have competed in either of that league's 18+ or 35+ group have been women in the past 3 years? What position did they play, and did they start, bench players, or bullpen? Any women coaches, umps, scorekeeers, etc?

What's the team size, and 13 is the number of openings, or number of applicants? How's your fielding and baserunning? How come you never pitched for them?

2) No, many of the girls throw harder than 60-65 from 60'6"...but none throw 95 mph at this point. I'm supposed to be one of the fastest, having been gunned last year at 82 mph. So what I'm saying is that even an 80 mph fastball in baseball is easier to hit than a 65 or 66 mph fastball in softball.

Greg Maddux and Jamie Moyer pitched about that fast. How's our control? You get them to chase a few pitches if need be?

Does a pitcher's height increase his/her unhittability? That was mentioned for 6'10" Randy Johnson, but Pedro, Maddux and others are 5'10" - 6' tall. Jennie Finch (6' tall) once interviewed Johnson about this.

3) Many of us throw a whole selection of pitches. I can actually pitch from any arm angle...including a little submarine on occasion. I CAN throw the following, but what I choose depends on arm slot, the opposing batters, how I'm feeling that day, what's working, etc... 12-6 curve, slurve, slider, cutter, 4-seam, change, eephus, splitty,and sinker. The only thing you DON'T have to look for (yet) is a knuckle...I can only throw the thing about 1 out of 10 times. Many of the girls have a fastball (either 4 or 2 seam or both), a curve of some sort, and a change. I give pitching lessons, so I need to know how to throw just about everything. I pitch against both men and women depending on the tournament. The baseball is the same size and weight ball as the men use... 9" (circumference) weighing approximately 5 oz. A softball is 12" in circumference and heavier (around 6.25-7.0 oz). In softball, not everyone uses the Optic Yellow ball, but it has been widely adopted, and it's hard to find a white softball any more.

Do you also throw a breaking ball or changeup? I think we'd mentioned ball size before, but is the ball you use in the mens' and/or womens' baseball smaller than the MLB ball?

You can throw each of the pitches you'd mentioned effectively at any time?

4) The short answer here is yes to all of the above, except the leap to rob the long ball doesn't happen too often, as only a few of us are reaching the fence right now or have WTP. The arm strength in general is not as great, but the running speed is a little slower than men, so the plays end up being pretty much the same, just taking maybe a second longer to develop...plenty of DP's and bang-bang plays, diving catches in the outfield etc. Just as in the dead ball era in MLB, there is more of an emphasis on contact hitting, small ball, and hit placement...think of Ty Cobb's game...minus the sharpened spikes up your thigh! Women's proposed pro league...will be 4 to 8 teams the first year with (up to) 25 woman rosters. More info will be coming soon...I'm helping to develop a website for the league as we speak...look for its debut around June 1st...I will be posting info here and a link at that time.

What's WTP? For the guys, I'll see OFers making diving catches where they snag the ball, then roll "head over heels" style. The women do this?

So by hit placement, that's like "Wee" Willie Keeler's "hit 'em where they ain't" thing? The women cutoff lots of plays (both throwng home and stopping infield runners from advancing)? Does the pitcher "check" the runner to insure he/she doesn't try stealing?

For the pro league, what kind of sponsorship do you expect? TV, radio, restaurant chains? Please do post the info in June when it's available.

5) Nuances of the game ..or why do we play baseball when there are no women in the pros? I think #1 is we love the game!!! Next, we know that women's ball is developing throughout the world. We may well have a small pro league in Florida this coming winter, we have international competitions, there is a Team USA as well (USA Baseball), and soon there will be club ball in colleges. There area bout 250,00 girls playing baseball in the US right now, and if they were offered the opportunity to continue with baseball most of them would choose to continue. I played until age 15, then was denied the opportunity to tryout in HS (mind you, I was an all-star in Pony League/Bronco league all the way from age 8 on up)... and was a starter on a team that won 5 consecutive league championships in SoCal (small, rural area, though), appeared in the tournament of champions twice for all of SoCal, etc....but nope...I had to play softball. Please note that I went on to have a much appreciated and wonderful softball career, but if baseball had been offered, I would have played straight through. Now, girls can play baseball in HS if they're good enough, and there are a few playing in college today. So...although we don't see female faces on FSN and ESPN in baseball, we do know it's possible to battle our way up...and we're trying. Many of us dream of at least breaking into Indy ball if the women's pro league doesn't make it. We know it's not the MLB, but it's OUR dream, and a couple of women have done it before in the States...and one in Japan is doing it now.

So you were denied an ability to play girls'/womens' baseball because the team organizers didn't want a co-ed league? Nobody wanted to organize an all-female league?

For HS girls playing baseball, do they have helmets, shinguards similar to MLB players? Is there more padding for girls' baseball than womens' softballl?

Where are the independent womens' baseball leagues in the USA and abroad? What are their names?

I'm sponsored by Akadema, 3n2 Sports, plus the local Gold's Gym and Spokane Eye Clinic. I think the fact that those companies believe in me as a baseball player indicates that someone besides just women thinks we can play and shares our dream.

Wow...I'm sure I missed something, but it's late now, and I need to run.


I'll try to answer anything further you might ask to the best of my knowledge and ability.

If you want to know more about fastpitch softball, I'm a writer/columnist for Softball West Magazine, and my columns are available at www.softballwest.com by clicking on "columns" and "Tiffany Brooks." There are about three years' worth if you're bored! : ) I can also recommend www.internationalsoftball.com (International Softball Federation -- a good source of info worldwide for both men's and women's softball) and for the best forum, www.ultimatecollegesoftball.com If you click on "forum" you get lots of choices...like here... "Beyond College Softball" thread gets you pro and international discussions. If you want to know more about women's baseball, you can start at my page at http://www.checkswing.net/profile/RightEGirl where there is a news clip and a couple of radio interviews, then follow-up by reading my blog about the North American Liberty Belles, the international elite women's team that I'm the Co-Founder/Co-Organizer of (and a player on) at: http://www.checkswing.net/profiles/b...-international. There are some YouTube clips on there of our team playing Korea. That'll get you started anyway! Happy reading!

Best,

Tiff

Thanks for all the info, Tiff. I checked out the softball website. I hope that you get many more sponsors, and that womens' baseball thrives.

[captlid]

I think we'd mentioned ball size before, but is the ball you use in the mens' and/or womens' baseball smaller than the MLB ball?

Baseballs in women's baseball are the same ones usually used by high school teams. Doubt most leagues can actually afford a mlb spec ball.

For the guys, I'll see OFers making diving catches where they snag the ball, then roll "head over heels" style. The women do this?

Sure we do this! I have done it in right field and saw my teammate in center do this.

So by hit placement, that's like "Wee" Willie Keeler's "hit 'em where they ain't" thing? The women cutoff lots of plays (both throwng home and stopping infield runners from advancing)? Does the pitcher "check" the runner to insure he/she doesn't try stealing?

I only know a few players that can "place" hits. But all the rest of the above is done. Though straight throws home from deep outfield are rarely done. From shorter distances in outfield yes.

For HS girls playing baseball, do they have helmets, shinguards similar to MLB players? Is there more padding for girls' baseball than womens' softballl?

Same amount of protection is used that the guys use obviously minus cups.

[Mattingly]

Captlid, all quoted text in italics is yours. Otherwise, the quoted text is yours. I'm a little pooped, but your post was very interesting and informative also, and here goes my reply:

Originally Posted by captlid

I think we'd mentioned ball size before, but is the ball you use in the mens' and/or womens' baseball smaller than the MLB ball?

Baseballs in women's baseball are the same ones usually used by high school teams. Doubt most leagues can actually afford a mlb spec ball.

Oh, I hadn't realized they were different prices. How much per a box of 100 would the HS baseballs cost, as opposed to the same quantity of MLB baseballs?

For the guys, I'll see OFers making diving catches where they snag the ball, then roll "head over heels" style. The women do this?

Sure we do this! I have done it in right field and saw my teammate in center do this.

That sounds great. Must be fun doing that, huh? Get lots of applause when that happens?

Do the women ever do the full-out airborne diving catch?

So by hit placement, that's like "Wee" Willie Keeler's "hit 'em where they ain't" thing? The women cutoff lots of plays (both throwng home and stopping infield runners from advancing)? Does the pitcher "check" the runner to insure he/she doesn't try stealing?

I only know a few players that can "place" hits. But all the rest of the above is done. Though straight throws home from deep outfield are rarely done. From shorter distances in outfield yes.

I'm trying to get a feel for the game you women (ladies?) play. Does anyone apply the "shift" against lefties? Or would that not be necessary?

Are there any hitters who can keep evading the fielders by often hitting the ball to LF or RF on a bounce, and the fielders have to chase it down? Or just know how to let the ball "drop" between a few fielders? Those hits alre always so much fun.

For HS girls playing baseball, do they have helmets, shinguards similar to MLB players? Is there more padding for girls' baseball than womens' softballl?

Same amount of protection is used that the guys use obviously minus cups.

Well, I would hope so.

You have any pictures of the women or girls suited up to play?

[captlid]

Oh, I hadn't realized they were different prices. How much per a box of 100 would the HS baseballs cost, as opposed to the same quantity of MLB baseballs?

Last time I shopped for baseballs, high school balls cost $4 - $5 a ball. MLB balls easily are in the range of $9 - $12 a ball.

Do the women ever do the full-out airborne diving catch?

I was a soccer goalie as a kid. Have done it in practice, don't usually play shortstop. It's rare though. The good shortstops don't need to do it.

I'm trying to get a feel for the game you women (ladies?) play. Does anyone apply the "shift" against lefties? Or would that not be necessary?

The lefty hitters I have seen were all almost flyball/line drive hitters and all pulled the ball. We only moved the outfielders to counter them.

Tiff can tell you more about the level of international play than me. But this is what I have personally seen.
A few outfielders that can throw a ball home from about 300 feet and gun a runner down trying to score from 2nd.
A few pitchers that can probably touch 80mph.
Pitchers that throw everything from sliders to curve balls.
A couple of hitters whacked a baseball multiple times to the warning track of the Brooklyn Cyclones park with a wood bat probably off a 60-70mph pitch.

The women's game has definitely improved in the last decade. Especially pitching and catching wise. Overall its just a slower version of what the guys play. That, and I have never seen a pitcher bean someone on purpose.

Are there any hitters who can keep evading the fielders by often hitting the ball to LF or RF on a bounce, and the fielders have to chase it down? Or just know how to let the ball "drop" between a few fielders? Those hits alre always so much fun.

Have seen a few that can hit to all fields. Me personally, try to hit the ball in the gaps between the fielders. Especially the right field gap. I have to, I run slower than a snail.

You have any pictures of the women or girls suited up to play?

PICS: http://nywomensbaseball.com/ppics03a.html
VIDEO: http://nycwbl.com/videos/womenplayingbaseball.mpg
[vid is 20 Megabytes]

[Mattingly]

Originally Posted by captlid

Last time I shopped for baseballs, high school balls cost $4 - $5 a ball. MLB balls easily are in the range of $9 - $12 a ball.

So what's the difference between a HS type of ball and an MLB type? Harder? Travels faster? Easier to pitch with?

I was a soccer goalie as a kid. Have done it in practice, don't usually play shortstop. It's rare though. The good shortstops don't need to do it.

I was referring to outfielders making the full-body dive for a ball. The guy I'd shown in the pic was an outfielder. If a SS did that, he/she would never get the ball, since it would be in the OF by the time he/she turned around.

The lefty hitters I have seen were all almost flyball/line drive hitters and all pulled the ball. We only moved the outfielders to counter them.

So you women would do the shift on southpaw hitters? Are there a lot of them in your league? Did it work more successfully, I'm curious? I imagine so, but I'd like to know more.

Tiff can tell you more about the level of international play than me. But this is what I have personally seen.
A few outfielders that can throw a ball home from about 300 feet and gun a runner down trying to score from 2nd.
A few pitchers that can probably touch 80mph.
Pitchers that throw everything from sliders to curve balls.
A couple of hitters whacked a baseball multiple times to the warning track of the Brooklyn Cyclones park with a wood bat probably off a 60-70mph pitch.

Sounds like a good game. Is the park where you play 300 ft or 400 ft to the fence or wall?

The women's game has definitely improved in the last decade. Especially pitching and catching wise. Overall its just a slower version of what the guys play. That, and I have never seen a pitcher bean someone on purpose.

How has the women's game improved as far as pitching and catching? Have the pitchers developed greater control? Do they know how to work out of jams better than they did before? Are the catchers studying hitters more than they did before?

I'd also be interested in knowing how much stats, videos, computers, etc play a part in the women's games. I mean, do you folks study your opponents' past few games? Scouting reports?

Have seen a few that can hit to all fields. Me personally, try to hit the ball in the gaps between the fielders. Especially the right field gap. I have to, I run slower than a snail.

That's OK. You usually get mostly singles like that? Drive in someone from 2B? Do you get an occasional double when you place the ball correctly?

PICS: http://nywomensbaseball.com/ppics03a.html
VIDEO: http://nycwbl.com/videos/womenplayingbaseball.mpg
[vid is 20 Megabytes]

Nice pictures. I'm wondering why the guy in the video said something about the women's poor playing. Was he just being sarcastic, or did he really think that the women's game was not of the same quality (or anywhere near the same)?

[captlid]

So what's the difference between a HS type of ball and an MLB type? Harder? Travels faster? Easier to pitch with?

MLB balls have better quality seams, and they are more raised, making it easier to pitch. They also do seem to be wound a bit more tight.

I was referring to outfielders making the full-body dive for a ball. The guy I'd shown in the pic was an outfielder. If a SS did that, he/she would never get the ball, since it would be in the OF by the time he/she turned around.

Oh ok, have seen women do this in higher levels of softball, don't see why a woman baseball player wouldn't if necessary.

So you women would do the shift on southpaw hitters? Are there a lot of them in your league? Did it work more successfully, I'm curious? I imagine so, but I'd like to know more.

We had 4 lefty hitters in our league. Moving the outfield to cover them worked perfectly well. They don't hit opposite way at all. Also had the firstbaseman play off the bag for that one hitter that we always knew would hit grounders.

Sounds like a good game. Is the park where you play 300 ft or 400 ft to the fence or wall?

We played in Central Park in NYC. No outfield walls. I don't think it would have made a difference if we had outfield walls to be honest.
We only had a few hitters that can consistently hit a ball far.
The video that you saw is in Central Park.

How has the women's game improved as far as pitching and catching? Have the pitchers developed greater control? Do they know how to work out of jams better than they did before? Are the catchers studying hitters more than they did before?

Pitchers are throwing with better control and speed and doing a far better job of holding runners at first. The pitchers are getting into less jams to begin with. For catchers, their overall physical skills have gotten better. They have always taken advantage of hitter's weaknesses.

I'd also be interested in knowing how much stats, videos, computers, etc play a part in the women's games. I mean, do you folks study your opponents' past few games? Scouting reports?

Women's baseball is such a small community that we mostly know each others habits and abilities by now. A volunteer will usually keep a scorebook to keep track of how well players are hitting and pitching. Our league in 2007 had two teams. We played every sunday from may to august. At best we had 12 games that season.

During a weekend tournament with other leagues in our region, gossip would float around about who's the hot pitcher or hitter that weekend.

I wrote a post on the amateur board about how I took advantage of a tired catcher, cause the silly girl bragged to me that she caught all her team's games. Her fourth game was against us and due to her tiredness we won that game.

The first thing I do when seeing a new team is find out who can throw a ball, and then who can field it.

That's OK. You usually get mostly singles like that? Drive in someone from 2B? Do you get an occasional double when you place the ball correctly?

Only get doubles if I cream the ball over the outfielder's heads. If there are runners on 2nd and 3rd a hard hit single to the outfield usually scores both. I get all excited when bases are loaded and I got a bat in my hands.

Nice pictures. I'm wondering why the guy in the video said something about the women's poor playing. Was he just being sarcastic, or did he really think that the women's game was not of the same quality (or anywhere near the same)?

Watched the video over didn't hear them say that?! One of the players commented that guys on opposing teams would say, "let's get the home run derby started" We had no control of what they would put in that video.

[MSUlaxer27]

Originally Posted by knick9

*sighs* and she will be forgotten years down the road because of the current setup that we have in the baseball world.

I'm glad to hear that she threw a no-hitter, though. That's an impressive feat, no doubt. It's a good story for her to tell later on.

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