Getting bat on plane of the ball

[jbooth]

Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing

Interesting ... so are you recommending that delaying the "launch & spend" process as late as possible is a good thing? That you don't commit to a swing ... and then slow it down to make a late adjustment?

Makes sense to me.

"Launch and spend" is fallacy.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by azmatsfan

Caught me. I meant rear forearm. A hand can't supinate afterall. Only hold onto the bat.

No problem ... I'm just searching for where the confusion is.

[jbooth]

Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing

Hyp ... this is very true ... but it will be a tough sell ... especially to those that see the top hand get to a palm-up orientation at contact without seeing a hint of supination taking place.

Just my opinion, but I don't believe he is applying any rearward force to the barrel, with the top hand, at that position.

[HYP]

Originally Posted by jbooth

Just my opinion, but I don't believe he is applying any rearward force to the barrel, with the top hand, at that position.

This is the next frame after the barrel started moving rearward. What would be applying force to get it to move?

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by jofus

"swivel" seems to promote what I think of as "casting".

Look at the path of the end of the bat compared to the back shoulder.....

I don't view it that way. The 'swivel' action, when over emphasized, actually tucks my rear humerus in closer to my body ... almost the opposite of casting.

Take a look at XXXXXXX's swings and take note of how his rear humerus is brought in close to the body.

[jbooth]

Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing

Jim ... I agree that lateral tilt is a part of this.

IMO, there is an 'effort' to initiate supination starting from the launch position ... albiet that supination will be tough to see until after the elbow has dropped. As I swing, I feel this pressure or sensation to initiate supination of the rear forearm assists in dropping the rear elbow.

What are your thoughts here?

I don't believe that any MLB player tries, or conciously thinks of pulling the barrel from above his head, toward the catcher. I believe his only thoughts are of getting the knob turned and then throwing the hands and barrel with a whipping action.

[Encinitas]

Originally Posted by jbooth

I don't believe that any MLB player tries, or conciously thinks of pulling the barrel from above his head, toward the catcher. I believe his only thoughts are of getting the knob turned and then throwing the hands and barrel with a whipping action.

Good because I don't either.

[jbooth]

Originally Posted by HYP

This is the next frame after the barrel started moving rearward. What would be applying force to get it to move?

Everything BUT the hands.

[songtitle]

The act of throwing your elbow to your hip forces the bat to start moving.

Not a fan of Mankin's THT stuff. He talks about wrists not being used at contact, then he goes off course on THT.

[HYP]

Originally Posted by jbooth

Everything BUT the hands.

He would look very funny standing in the batters box with the bat on the ground.

[HYP]

Originally Posted by songtitle

The act of throwing your elbow to your hip forces the bat to start moving.

Not a fan of Mankin's THT stuff. He talks about wrists not being used at contact, then he goes off course on THT.

So, is this guy "throwing" his elbow to his hip?

[jofus]

Originally Posted by HYP

He would look very funny standing in the batters box with the bat on the ground.

So, you're saying that the job of the hands is to hold onto the bat?

[HYP]

Originally Posted by jofus

So, you're saying that the job of the hands is to hold onto the bat?

Touche'

One of the jobs, yes. The other is to apply force to the handle.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by jbooth

I don't believe that any MLB player tries, or conciously thinks of pulling the barrel from above his head, toward the catcher. I believe his only thoughts are of getting the knob turned and then throwing the hands and barrel with a whipping action.

I completely agree that there is no concious effort to send the bat barrel on a rearward arc.

What I believe is that the action of lateral-tilt and the force to initate supination from a fully pronated position, is the cause of the rearward arc ... but absolutely ... there is no "intent" to cause the barrel to arc rearward.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by jbooth

Everything BUT the hands.

So would that include the rear forearm ... with directional force that would result in supination further downstream?

[songtitle]

Originally Posted by HYP

So, is this guy "throwing" his elbow to his hip?

You think he's not? Looks like he coils back until toe touch, then fires his elbow down.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by songtitle

The act of throwing your elbow to your hip forces the bat to start moving.

Not a fan of Mankin's THT stuff. He talks about wrists not being used at contact, then he goes off course on THT.

What is the action that causes the elbow to slot?

[HYP]

Originally Posted by songtitle

You think he's not? Looks like he coils back until toe touch, then fires his elbow down.

Now I have your definition of "fire". Which appears to be any movement at all. That elbow is not fired. It goes down but it is not fired down.

[songtitle]

Originally Posted by HYP

Now I have your definition of "fire". Which appears to be any movement at all. That elbow is not fired. It goes down but it is not fired down.

The faster the better. Use any cue you like. "Fire" works for most kids.

[HYP]

Originally Posted by songtitle

The faster the better. Use any cue you like. "Fire" works for most kids.

So, the firing of the elbow down gets the barrel moving?

I can slam my elbow down all on want to and the barrel don't move.

[jofus]

Originally Posted by HYP

Touche'

One of the jobs, yes. The other is to apply force to the handle.

Apply force to the handle in which direction? How do the hands apply force in any direction by themselves?

If you say (for example) that the rear shoulder and/or rear elbow begin to drop, while the front shoulder and/or elbow begin to raise, applying a force to the handle, then at least that makes more sense to me than saying the hands apply force (other than squeezing the bat, or holding onto it...).

Tell me this...do you think that, if you could somehow attach the bat to the hands with the hands open (say, with a lot of duct tape...and yes, I'm a hillbilly ), could you still swing the bat in the same path as a normal swing where the hands are holding onto the bat?

[jofus]

Originally Posted by HYP

So, the firing of the elbow down gets the barrel moving?

I can slam my elbow down all on want to and the barrel don't move.

Maybe you can (but not without compensating with your wrist, imho)...but, can you raise your front elbow at the same time and still not move the barrel?

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by songtitle

The faster the better. Use any cue you like. "Fire" works for most kids.

I can get my elbow (when it is relaxed / little tension) to quickly slot by applying a force that causes the rear forearm to supinate.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by HYP

So, the firing of the elbow down gets the barrel moving?

I can slam my elbow down all on want to and the barrel don't move.

Yes ... but I believe there are different actions that can take place "under the hood" to cause the elbow to drop.

[songtitle]

Originally Posted by HYP

So, the firing of the elbow down gets the barrel moving?

I can slam my elbow down all on want to and the barrel don't move.

Sorry. Never had anyone say that with a bat in their hands. Works for everyone else.