Yankees win!!!!

[Rich the Giants fan]

Originally Posted by gman5431

Unless something has changed, the Phils have him for 9 mill next year and then he is a FA.

G Man

Cliff Lee's last contract was for 4-years, $15 million with an $8 million option ($1 M buyout) for 2010.

He could be a FA this winter unless the Phils exercise that option (which I have no doubt they will, or even try to sign him to an extension).

[gman5431]

Originally Posted by Rich the Giants fan

Cliff Lee's last contract was for 4-years, $15 million with an $8 million option ($1 M buyout) for 2010.

He could be a FA this winter unless the Phils exercise that option (which I have no doubt they will, or even try to sign him to an extension).

Thanks. And of course he gets the security of the guaranteed money, if he signs an extension now, but forgoes the riches of FA. Its a give or take there. But the point is, the Yankees basically have the first pick at any FAs but more often than not, they can offer the most money.

G Man

[Captain Cold Nose]

Originally Posted by gman5431

Thanks. And of course he gets the security of the guaranteed money, if he signs an extension now, but forgoes the riches of FA. Its a give or take there. But the point is, the Yankees basically have the first pick at any FAs but more often than not, they can offer the most money.

G Man

So should they be forced to move?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Originally Posted by Rich the Giants fan

Show me a business, any business, where the owner puts his own money into payroll. Payroll is always directly tied to revenues. The Yankees can afford that size of a payroll due to their enormous revenues. Carl Pohlad of the Twins may have billions, but he got those billions by being wise. He'd lose tens or maybe even hundreds of millions pumping his own money into payroll when the revenue the Twins have can't sustain it. I highly doubt the Steinbrenner family has ever put a dime of their family money into payroll.
Business just doesn't work the way you seem to think it does.

How about some other owners digging deeper into their pockets, putting a better team on the field, that the fans will come out to see, bring in more revenue.

Add to that, there were some teams who seem to know how to spend their money.
Made post season, Cards, Rockies and Twins, they don't make the top 15 in MLB payrolls.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3

How about some other owners digging deeper into their pockets, putting a better team on the field, that the fans will come out to see, bring in more revenue.

Add to that, there were some teams who seem to know how to spend their money.
Made post season, Cards, Rockies and Twins, they don't make the top 15 in MLB payrolls.

I think the issue is the Yankees owners don't have to dig into their own pockets, they've been able to generate revenue off the field that gives them the wherwithal other teams don't have. The system as is unfairly benefits those who are best able to do so.

But, the Yankees are the only team that deserves scorn for this. Not those who created the system years ago, not the broadcasting and cable companies for offering those huge contracts, not anyone who might be able to do something, like breaking baseball's exemption. Nope, just the Yankees.

I am not a Yankee fan, but just attacking the Yankees for this is beyond reasonable.

[TonyStarks]

Originally Posted by Rich the Giants fan

Maybe not, but they can and did, in addition to outbidding/overspending on whatever free agent they desire. Name another team that can do that.

And why are they so good at developing their own talent? Because they have more money to spend on their farm system than other teams. That's why they can trade away the farm and quicky rebuild, unlike other teams.

The Yankees have several distinct advantages based on the fact that they have revenues other teams could only ever dream about. As I've said before, I don't begrudge them that, but it isn't fair to the rest of the league.

Untill all teams start out on equal footing, there will always be fans complaining it isn't fair. Is that good for baseball? I think not.

Off the top of my head: the Dodgers, White Sox, Mets, Orioles, Red Sox, Cubs, Nationals, all have resources to do so. All these teams have very very wealthy owners. I'm sure more teams could do it, but there board of directors/owners will only pony up "X" amount of dollars towards the team.

And I beg to differ that Yankee money is the reason that they are so good at developing talent. That's another half-truth. The Marlins do a damn good job. The Twins are contenders year after year. The Rays seem to have got the right idea. I don't think anyone would mistake any of those teams for the Yankees. Look, it's easy to blame the Yankees I understand that but people need to start looking elsewhere for a villain.

For how many years did the Yankees have a terrible farm system? And they've always had money under George....so why didn't it produce? Money doesn't mean your going to build a winner, just ask the Mets and the Orioles in the 90s.

Do the Yankees seem to have an endless supply of money? Sure seems like it! But they do because they produce winners. The Owners put all they've got into this team. They rebuilt the Yankee brand and now they're reaping the rewards.

The Yankees didn't invent Free Agency, they don't force teams to trade with them. They only have an owner who wants to win no matter what! There's not a fan in all of Sports that doesn't want that type of man for an owner.

Lately, I've come to terms that it's okay when everyone else does it so long as it isn't the Yankees.

Originally Posted by gman5431

If i had the means of the Yankees - the TV contract, sell outs, etc, i would do the same thing - buy the players i wanted. I really cant fault them for that. What i fault is the system that allows this type of inequity to go on and to me, it the championship feels cheapened because it feels to me like the Yankees out and out bought the crown.

G Man

In all seriousness...
Let me ask you GMan when the Red Sox won it in 2007 with just 3 Home Grown players and all the rest spare parts...that wasn't cheap? But when a Yankee team with more than half the roster home grown wins it cheapens their Championship?

[RuthMayBond]

Originally Posted by TonyStarks

The Rays seem to have got the right idea.

One year out of twelve they have finished higher than third in their division

[gman5431]

Originally Posted by TonyStarks

In all seriousness...
Let me ask you GMan when the Red Sox won it in 2007 with just 3 Home Grown players and all the rest spare parts...that wasn't cheap? But when a Yankee team with more than half the roster home grown wins it cheapens their Championship?

That was pretty cheap too....but i didnt feel as i do now. I feel like the Yankees literally bought the championship and it was just like playing out the string. I just wish the system was a little more fair. Then if you have a team which is dominating, or a team which stinks, you can look directly at the organization and not because they have been put into a competitive situation that sucks.

G Man

[9RoyHobbsRF]

But when a Yankee team with more than half the roster home grown wins it cheapens their Championship?

Their #2 hitter
Thier #3 hitter
Their #4 hitter
Their #5 hitter
Their #7 hitter

Their #1 starter
Their #2 starter
(these two in a 7 game series would start 5 of the 7 games)

none were home grown

it doesnt matter how many guys making 400K sitting on the bench you have or being the 10th, 11th and 12th pitchers on a pitching staff are home grown

the majority (overwhelming) of key Yankees are not home grown

[Captain Cold Nose]

Originally Posted by 9RoyHobbsRF

But when a Yankee team with more than half the roster home grown wins it cheapens their Championship?

Their #2 hitter
Thier #3 hitter
Their #4 hitter
Their #5 hitter
Their #7 hitter

Their #1 starter
Their #2 starter
(these two in a 7 game series would start 5 of the 7 games)

none were home grown

it doesnt matter how many guys making 400K sitting on the bench you have or being the 10th, 11th and 12th pitchers on a pitching staff are home grown

the majority (overwhelming) of key Yankees are not home grown

And this is hardly the first time that has happened in the annals of baseball. Got anything new?

[Rich the Giants fan]

Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3

How about some other owners digging deeper into their pockets, putting a better team on the field, that the fans will come out to see, bring in more revenue.

Add to that, there were some teams who seem to know how to spend their money.
Made post season, Cards, Rockies and Twins, they don't make the top 15 in MLB payrolls.

You continue to ignore my posts about this subject. Please see post #38.

Owners DO NOT PUT THEIR OWN MONEY INTO PAYROLL.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Originally Posted by TonyStarks

And I beg to differ that Yankee money is the reason that they are so good at developing talent. That's another half-truth. The Marlins do a damn good job. The Twins are contenders year after year. The Rays seem to have got the right idea. I don't think anyone would mistake any of those teams for the Yankees. Look, it's easy to blame the Yankees I understand that but people need to start looking elsewhere for a villain.

No one said, or at least I didn't, that money is the reason why the Yankees are good at developing talent, but it certainly gives them an advantage that other teams don't have. They can hire more scouts and pour more money into developement. They can afford to go over slot for draft picks and be assured of signing whatever player they select.

The Yankee money is clearly an advantage that other teams do not have. I don't see how this can be reasonably disputed.

[yamsi12]

Originally Posted by STLCards2

I bet you won't be complaining when the Giants give Lincecum a 20+ million contract and S.F. becomes one of the top 5 $$$ teams in baseball.

Timmy will be the highest paid pitcher in baseball in a few years, and deservedly so. But the Giants payroll will still stay around the 85 mill mark per season. They just dont have the money to throw around like the Yankees do.

But I will say you guys got ripped off for the stadium you got. $1.5 billion? Seriously?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Originally Posted by Rich the Giants fan

You continue to ignore my posts about this subject. Please see post #38.

Owners DO NOT PUT THEIR OWN MONEY INTO PAYROLL.

I read it, thats what you say. One way or another the owner puts up.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3

I read it, thats what you say. One way or another the owner puts up.

That's the way business works.

[TonyStarks]

Originally Posted by 9RoyHobbsRF

But when a Yankee team with more than half the roster home grown wins it cheapens their Championship?

Their #2 hitter
Thier #3 hitter
Their #4 hitter
Their #5 hitter
Their #7 hitter

Their #1 starter
Their #2 starter
(these two in a 7 game series would start 5 of the 7 games)

none were home grown

it doesnt matter how many guys making 400K sitting on the bench you have or being the 10th, 11th and 12th pitchers on a pitching staff are home grown

the majority (overwhelming) of key Yankees are not home grown

Let me see the side by side of Boston's Lineup and Rotation for the '07 team.
Let me see the side by side for the Cardinals team also while your at it.

BTW, you forgot to check in the bullpen.

[TonyStarks]

Originally Posted by Rich the Giants fan

No one said, or at least I didn't, that money is the reason why the Yankees are good at developing talent, but it certainly gives them an advantage that other teams don't have. They can hire more scouts and pour more money into developement. They can afford to go over slot for draft picks and be assured of signing whatever player they select.

The Yankee money is clearly an advantage that other teams do not have. I don't see how this can be reasonably disputed.

I wasn't addressing you specifically on this issue.

The Yankees had money in the 80s and where was their farm system and player development then? Like I said in another post....the Yankees have been spending money for years now....but it only became a problem after they started winning. I'm sorry..

[Rich the Giants fan]

Originally Posted by TonyStarks

I wasn't addressing you specifically on this issue.

The Yankees had money in the 80s and where was their farm system and player development then? Like I said in another post....the Yankees have been spending money for years now....but it only became a problem after they started winning. I'm sorry..

In the 80's, George Steinbrenner was running the show. The GM was for show. He didn't make many smart decisions. As I've said many times and many ways, money does not gaurantee winning, it just gives you an advantage over those who have less to spend. I don't like that inherent advantage the Yankees have.

[STLCards2]

Originally Posted by TonyStarks

Let me see the side by side for the Cardinals team also while your at it.

.

My pleasure:

Starters (postseason)]

1. Eckstien -trade
2. Belliard - trade
3. Pujols - homegrown
4. Edmonds - trade
5. Rolen - trade
6. Encarnacion - trade
7. Molina - homegrown
8. Duncan - homegrown

Key bench players

Taguchi - free agent from Japan
Speizio - not sure
Wilson - trade


SP- Carpenter - trade
SP- Suppan - trade
SP -Weaver - trade
SP - Marquis - trade
CP - Wainright - trade
CP - Looper - trade
CP - Johnson - not sure
CP - Kinney - homegrown

Guys who missed PS due to injury

Isringhausen - trade
Mulder - trade

Not many homegrown guys, but no free agent signings (outside of resigning) either

[YankeeDJW]

Originally Posted by 9RoyHobbsRF

But when a Yankee team with more than half the roster home grown wins it cheapens their Championship?

Their #2 hitter
Thier #3 hitter
Their #4 hitter
Their #5 hitter
Their #7 hitter

Their #1 starter
Their #2 starter
(these two in a 7 game series would start 5 of the 7 games)

none were home grown

it doesnt matter how many guys making 400K sitting on the bench you have or being the 10th, 11th and 12th pitchers on a pitching staff are home grown

the majority (overwhelming) of key Yankees are not home grown

Which key Yankees? Jeter, Posada, Pettite, Rivera, Hughes, Cano, Joba, Aceves, and Robertson were all key in either the regular or postseason. Melky, Gardner Coke and Pena also contributed quite a bit. None of them played the bench the whole year or were strictly mop-up pitchers. So by overwhelming majority, you mean four or five players. Can't say I agree.