Whip, Swivel, Early Bat Speed, Torque, and Such

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

Chris, you're better than this. HG for virtually the entire season as a relatively diminutive middle infielder was leading his team in slugging and OPS plus. Whether he makes contact every time or not, the point is that he can put a charge into those balls he does hit -- better on a pound-for-pound basis than his teammates, and has been near the top of the OPS and slugging charts for his teams for the past two years.

And what does the fuzziness of the Molitor clip have to do with its merits? It's clear enough.

While I think it's fine to look to Pujols for a great many cues, you also have to recognize that he's probably the only person on the planet who can do what he does with his thighs and lower body to generate power. Relying primarily on his swings help reaches limitations to the extent that their force comes from him being able to do things that others can't.

Frankly, one of the best models for good swings that I've seen is a 5'0", 95 lb. kid who played with our 14u team over the summer and led the team in batting from both sides of the plate. His swing was pretty, efficient and effortless -- churning out line drive after line drive.

Thank you UM!!

I couldn't have said it any better.

[mudvnine]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

Chris, you're better than this. HG for virtually the entire season as a relatively diminutive middle infielder was leading his team in slugging and OPS plus. Whether he makes contact every time or not, the point is that he can put a charge into those balls he does hit -- better on a pound-for-pound basis than his teammates, and has been near the top of the OPS and slugging charts for his teams for the past two years.

And what does the fuzziness of the Molitor clip have to do with its merits? It's clear enough.

While I think it's fine to look to Pujols for a great many cues, you also have to recognize that he's probably the only person on the planet who can do what he does with his thighs and lower body to generate power. Relying primarily on his swings help reaches limitations to the extent that their force comes from him being able to do things that others can't.

Frankly, one of the best models for good swings that I've seen is a 5'0", 95 lb. kid who played with our 14u team over the summer and led the team in batting from both sides of the plate. His swing was pretty, efficient and effortless -- churning out line drive after line drive.

Very good post Ursa . . . I especially liked that part about the kid on your team . . . it's fun to see kids like that when they happen to come around every once in a while.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary

Here's a totally different, but also good, hitter showing the same pattern in a good swing. In this case it's Dustin Pedroia smacking a ball off of the left field wall on a flat line drive.



Notice how his back elbow drops and the bat moves at the same time.

Also, notice how he maintains the hinge angle through Frame 42 or Frame 43.

Chris ... Yeager has an entire DVD dedicated to discussing a flaw shown in this video clip. If you are interested, the DVD is titled “Back Elbow Function and Body Segment Rotation in the Elite Hitter plus Analysis”.

Link: To Chris Yeager's DVDs

[Berkman#17]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

While I think it's fine to look to Pujols for a great many cues, you also have to recognize that he's probably the only person on the planet who can do what he does with his thighs and lower body to generate power. Relying primarily on his swings help reaches limitations to the extent that their force comes from him being able to do things that others can't.

I said the exact same thing in another thread, and I heard crickets. I wonder if he'll respond to you.

[1chapterahead]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

Chris, you're better than this. HG for virtually the entire season as a relatively diminutive middle infielder was leading his team in slugging and OPS plus. Whether he makes contact every time or not, the point is that he can put a charge into those balls he does hit -- better on a pound-for-pound basis than his teammates, and has been near the top of the OPS and slugging charts for his teams for the past two years.

And what does the fuzziness of the Molitor clip have to do with its merits? It's clear enough.

While I think it's fine to look to Pujols for a great many cues, you also have to recognize that he's probably the only person on the planet who can do what he does with his thighs and lower body to generate power. Relying primarily on his swings help reaches limitations to the extent that their force comes from him being able to do things that others can't.

Frankly, one of the best models for good swings that I've seen is a 5'0", 95 lb. kid who played with our 14u team over the summer and led the team in batting from both sides of the plate. His swing was pretty, efficient and effortless -- churning out line drive after line drive.

UM, I think all can agree.

[Berkman#17]

Originally Posted by BoardMember

Five.......I've removed 6 frames and left EVERY 7th frame in tact from what I think is a 210fps clip.....That should be close to 30fps.......maybe not exact....but close........

Do you see barrel movement corrisponding to slotting?......It's a yes or no question.......

I see the barrel responding to what the hands want to and are doing. Elbow just moves because it has to.

[BoardMember]

Originally Posted by Berkman#17

I see the barrel responding to what the hands want to and are doing. Elbow just moves because it has to.

That's one way to look at it......

I see the back elbow "allowing" the hands to do what they want to do.......

See....thats whats ironic about this issue.......

On one hand, people want to show us how Pujols and Hamilton and a host of others, back elbow moves "a lot" without anything else happening......

Like this guy for example.....



On the other hand, they want to say the elbow is "responding" to what the hands are doing........Which by their own admission isn't much......

There really is only ONE constant.......And that's the back elbow function.....

[1chapterahead]

Originally Posted by BoardMember

That's one way to look at it......

I see the back elbow "allowing" the hands to do what they want to do.......

See....thats whats ironic about this issue.......

On one hand, people want to show us how Pujols and Hamilton and a host of others, back elbow moves "a lot" without anything else happening......

Like this guy for example.....



On the other hand, they want to say the elbow is "responding" to what the hands are doing........Which by their own admission isn't much......

There really is only ONE constant.......And that's the back elbow function.....

So hitters focus should be on the back elbow?

[Chris O'Leary]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

Chris, you're better than this. HG for virtually the entire season as a relatively diminutive middle infielder was leading his team in slugging and OPS plus. Whether he makes contact every time or not, the point is that he can put a charge into those balls he does hit -- better on a pound-for-pound basis than his teammates, and has been near the top of the OPS and slugging charts for his teams for the past two years.

I think it's simply ridiculous for someone to think that it's better to take cues from a career minor leaguer, or any minor leaguer, when instead you can take cues from one of the greatest hitters of all time.

I would study Andres' swing over Matranga's every day because Andres is pretty much the same age and size as Matranga (they even played together) but is doing the same thing at the major league level.

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

And what does the fuzziness of the Molitor clip have to do with its merits? It's clear enough.

It's hard to definitively state what he's doing when, especially at the moment in question. You also don't know anything about the context of the swing.

[Chris O'Leary]

Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing

Chris ... Yeager has an entire DVD dedicated to discussing a flaw shown in this video clip. If you are interested, the DVD is titled “Back Elbow Function and Body Segment Rotation in the Elite Hitter plus Analysis”.

The other day I got into a serious discussion with a guy who thought Pujols' swing was all wrong and that, if Pujols followed his advice (which was mostly to increase his bat speed from 87MPH to 100MPH+), he'd have him hitting .400 and 70 home runs in no time.

This reminds me of that.

[Cannonball]

Originally Posted by BoardMember

That's one way to look at it......

I see the back elbow "allowing" the hands to do what they want to do.......

See....thats whats ironic about this issue.......

On one hand, people want to show us how Pujols and Hamilton and a host of others, back elbow moves "a lot" without anything else happening......

Like this guy for example.....



On the other hand, they want to say the elbow is "responding" to what the hands are doing........Which by their own admission isn't much......

There really is only ONE constant.......And that's the back elbow function.....

BM, I think this is a nice post.

[HYP]

Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary

Here's a totally different, but also good, hitter showing the same pattern in a good swing. In this case it's Dustin Pedroia smacking a ball off of the left field wall on a flat line drive.



Notice how his back elbow drops and the bat moves at the same time.

Also, notice how he maintains the hinge angle through Frame 42 or Frame 43.

Whats moving the barrel in these 2 frames?

[HYP]

Originally Posted by 4for4

Good discussion points. This is what I was getting at earlier. Do you think its possible that functionally speaking, supination is not what's happening, but you have a teaching construct that includes these types of cues that work for your players?

The desire to supinate. The intent to supinate. Applying a force that would cause supination.

[Cannonball]

Originally Posted by HYP

Whats moving the barrel in these 2 frames?

Is it possible that the "sit action" is what gives the appearance of barrel movement? I've looked at these videos and if you look at the chin, it also appears that the chin tucks into the deltoid more.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary

I think it's simply ridiculous for someone to think that it's better to take cues from a career minor leaguer, or any minor leaguer, when instead you can take cues from one of the greatest hitters of all time.

I would study Andres' swing over Matranga's every day because Andres is pretty much the same age and size as Matranga (they even played together) but is doing the same thing at the major league level.

Chris ... you are missing the point. You should be studying virtually everything you can on the topic.

IMO you missed an major opportunity by not learning from HG's sharing of what he went through to climb the ladder.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by 1chapterahead

So hitters focus should be on the back elbow?

No ... that's not the message.

However, I would take note that folks like Don Slaught consider the elbow to be the trigger for the swing.

From my way of thinking, it's more important to understand what moves the elbow.

[new2thesport]

Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing

No ... that's not the message.

However, I would take note that folks like Don Slaught consider the elbow to be the trigger for the swing.

From my way of thinking, it's more important to understand what moves the elbow.

Mucho Gracias, Cinco!

[collegeStar]

[quote]

Originally Posted by swingbuilder

Erik, do you not have Yeagers stuff? By far the best DVD set on the market. You want to be endorsed then you better get Yeager. Put your Tee together with his stuff. Big sales. I want my cut too!

FFS--Do you agree?

[cbb]

Originally Posted by swingbuilder View Post
Erik, do you not have Yeagers stuff? By far the best DVD set on the market. You want to be endorsed then you better get Yeager. Put your Tee together with his stuff. Big sales. I want my cut too!

I agree--but he is even better in person....

[FiveFrameSwing]

CS ... I'm not privey to the context of your post ... but IMO Yeager's work is, by in large, very good. I recommend that anyone serious about this subject purchase his DVDs.

[collegeStar]

[quote]

Originally Posted by swingbuilder

Erik, do you not have Yeagers stuff? By far the best DVD set on the market.

Do you agree that it is

By far the best DVD set on the market.

? If not who's is best??

context? click on ">" of original post for that..

[FiveFrameSwing]

Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary

I think it's simply ridiculous for someone to think that it's better to take cues from a career minor leaguer, or any minor leaguer, when instead you can take cues from one of the greatest hitters of all time.

To clarify, does this mean that you support the cue of "just throw the hands"?

[FiveFrameSwing]

Yes, CS, I believe Yeager has the best DVD on hitting.

[collegeStar]

The reason I ask is because in looking back at your prior posts, you said as much many times...Yet Yeager is sure that MLB players are attempting to prevent exactly what x is promoting----how do you reconcile?

[FiveFrameSwing]

CS ... there were a 'few' things that didn't work with me. We discussed the "neutral spine" angle concept earlier. I don't believe it is good idea to advocate a 'neutral spine' throughout the forward weight shift. That isn't what I see in video of elite hitters. For me, it hindered the weight shift and had me hitting balls further out front than I wanted. To me, it didn't add up, and so I filtered it out.

I also don't like the "slap the ball in the face" concept. To me this attempts to resist supination up to contact, which I don't agree with.

IMO, it is important to apply filters. The better one's filters are, the better off they will be. If a coach is passing along information that is 80% good, and if you have a decent enough filter, then you shouldn't be concerned to listen to that coach. IMO, Yeager has more 'correct' than what I see elsewhere. He has some very good detailed information. He also puts together a very smart hitting routine.