Catcher's Balk

[darivero]

Playing in the semi-finals of our travel league, 10U kids, game is tied at 4-4, bottom of the last inning-we are the away team....the other team has 2 outs and runners on second and third....our coach calls for the pitcher to intentionally walk the next batter to load the bases and then we hear "catcher's balk" coming from the ump and the winning run scores...end of our season.

You could imagine the wildness that occurred right after that. The other coach apologized for winning this way. We were stunned and most of us, I am just a parent not a coach, had never heard such a thing....I bring it up here as a warning to all coaches, the proper thing to do is to call time, have the catcher and pitcher come over to the coach to discuss the process in order to avoid this....anyone else heard this called in a game before?

David

[ipitch]

I've seen it called in MLB. The catcher must have both feet in the catcher's box until the pitcher releases the ball. I've never been too fond of the rule...I don't think it's a big deal if the catcher moves a split-second too early.

[Indianapolis Indians]

I have umpired at the HS level for 12 years and no way in the world would I make a call like that at the HS level let alone in a ten and under league.

That umpire needs to get a clue.

Let the players decide the game, not some nitpicky rule.

[Macker]

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Indians

I have umpired at the HS level for 12 years and no way in the world would I make a call like that at the HS level let alone in a ten and under league.

Agreed. Besides, there is no "catcher's balk" so the ump is a bit ignorant to yell that out. True, the catcher can cause a balk, but the pitcher is charged with the balk no matter what player caused it.

[Indianapolis Indians]

Originally Posted by Macker

Agreed. Besides, there is no "catcher's balk" so the ump is a bit ignorant to yell that out. True, the catcher can cause a balk, but the pitcher is charged with the balk no matter what player caused it.

Either this umpire was totally clueless or wanted to get home so he ended the game on a nonsense call. Either way he needs to get a clue.

[jaybird_1981]

Wow yeah you never make that call in that situation.

I might explain to the catcher and coach after the game the rule, just so some other clueless blue doesn't screw them over.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Indians

Either this umpire was totally clueless or wanted to get home so he ended the game on a nonsense call. Either way he needs to get a clue.

Ahh, yes; the players fail to adhere to the rules, and it's the umpire's fault. I suppose you have no problem with an umpire turning the other way and not calling a balk when the pitcher starts his pitching motion, stops because his catcher's not ready, then starts again.

Yes, this might've been a VERY picky call by the umpire, but it was also probably very legitimate. If the catcher is out of his box before the pitcher starts his motion, this is a violation, no question about it. An umpire who sees it and doesn't call it is not taking his responsibilities seriously.

The problem here is simply one of proper coaching. If a coach is going to use the intentional walk (and using it down at the 10U level is another discussion item in and of itself), he needs to teach his pitchers and catchers how to execute them properly.

Manny A

[Macker]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Ahh, yes; the players fail to adhere to the rules, and it's the umpire's fault. I suppose you have no problem with an umpire turning the other way and not calling a balk when the pitcher starts his pitching motion, stops because his catcher's not ready, then starts again.

While it probably was the correct call, I don't see any sense in calling it in a 10U league. In my local league, the umpires don't even call 'normal' balks. The ump will make note of it with no penalty. Then the ump and/or coach will instruct the kid. Going strictly by the book, an ump could easily call 50 balks in these games. I've seen high school freshman leagues where the first balk is just a warning with no penalty. Certainly the pitcher & catcher should be further coached on this, but in 10U, the ump shouldn't be calling it.

[Indianapolis Indians]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Ahh, yes; the players fail to adhere to the rules, and it's the umpire's fault. I suppose you have no problem with an umpire turning the other way and not calling a balk when the pitcher starts his pitching motion, stops because his catcher's not ready, then starts again.

Yes, this might've been a VERY picky call by the umpire, but it was also probably very legitimate. If the catcher is out of his box before the pitcher starts his motion, this is a violation, no question about it. An umpire who sees it and doesn't call it is not taking his responsibilities seriously.

The problem here is simply one of proper coaching. If a coach is going to use the intentional walk (and using it down at the 10U level is another discussion item in and of itself), he needs to teach his pitchers and catchers how to execute them properly.

Manny A

This is a league with kids under 10 years old. If I was to nitpick every single rule then we would be there forever and create such a atmosphere that the game would turn into a combination of a joke and a bore.

By making calls like that you are taking the game away from the kids. Let the kids decide who wins not some small incident that really had ZERO bearing in the outcome of the game.

Jaywalking is against the law but I don't think you are going to find to many law enforcement agencies rushing to enforce it.

[ipitch]

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Indians

By making calls like that you are taking the game away from the kids. Let the kids decide who wins not some small incident that really had ZERO bearing in the outcome of the game.

If there was a balk, then the kids did decide the outcome. Perhaps you should criticize the people that put the rule in the book (or didn't take it out) for young kids. But, don't blame the umpire. It's his job to enforce the rules, whether it's the 1st inning or the last inning.

[Indianapolis Indians]

Originally Posted by ipitch

If there was a balk, then the kids did decide the outcome. Perhaps you should criticize the people that put the rule in the book (or didn't take it out) for young kids. But, don't blame the umpire. It's his job to enforce the rules, whether it's the 1st inning or the last inning.

If I were to call balks on 8 year olds at the same degree I would call them at the collegiate level, we would have a good 4-5 balks an inning. When you start calling so many balks against kids at that age instead of focusing on the mechanics of pitching they instead worry that they may balk instead. At that age the kids are better served learning the fundamentals of the game first like getting the ball over the plate as opposed to worrying about a rule that really few people even know about. The umpire in that situation should have just told the catcher not to leave the box again till the pitch was thrown. The umpire would have saved him self a world of grief, gave the catcher needed instruction and not made a decisive call that affected the game.

[ipitch]

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Indians

If I were to call balks on 8 year olds at the same degree I would call them at the collegiate level, we would have a good 4-5 balks an inning. When you start calling so many balks against kids at that age instead of focusing on the mechanics of pitching they instead worry that they may balk instead. At that age the kids are better served learning the fundamentals of the game first like getting the ball over the plate as opposed to worrying about a rule that really few people even know about.

Are there really leadoffs in a league with 8 year-olds? Without leadoffs, isn't a balk impossible (except for a "catcher's balk", I guess)?

[Indianapolis Indians]

Originally Posted by ipitch

Are there really leadoffs in a league with 8 year-olds? Without leadoffs, isn't a balk impossible (except for a "catcher's balk", I guess)?

One of the leagues we work has leadoffs at that age.

[Hysteria]

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Indians

One of the leagues we work has leadoffs at that age.

I wasn't allowed to take leads until I was 13+ Leagues. When I playing Little League like 6 or so years ago there were no leads and I'm pretty sure there still aren't

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Indianapolis Indians

By making calls like that you are taking the game away from the kids. Let the kids decide who wins not some small incident that really had ZERO bearing in the outcome of the game.

Another point that umpires hear all the time--Let the kids decide the game. Problem is, this catcher did decide it.

If you don't want these kinds of calls made at this level, fine. I don't have a issue with that. But the way to remedy that is to have whoever is running the league implement a local policy saying just that. Leaving it up to the umpires to decide because there is a lack of such guidance is going to be a problem because these minor infractions will get ignored by some, and enforced by others.

[kgrifeyjr30]

This call happened to us too in extra innings...never even heard of the rule until then.

[baseballfreak120]

It is starnge to hearthe call at that age. I play 15u and occasionally you will see the call, maybe twicw if that a season. My old trainer used to stress it alot. It is if the cat her leaves to early, or reaches out over the pate befpore the ball is in his glove.

[dolphindan1]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Ahh, yes; the players fail to adhere to the rules, and it's the umpire's fault. I suppose you have no problem with an umpire turning the other way and not calling a balk when the pitcher starts his pitching motion, stops because his catcher's not ready, then starts again.

Yes, this might've been a VERY picky call by the umpire, but it was also probably very legitimate. If the catcher is out of his box before the pitcher starts his motion, this is a violation, no question about it. An umpire who sees it and doesn't call it is not taking his responsibilities seriously.

The problem here is simply one of proper coaching. If a coach is going to use the intentional walk (and using it down at the 10U level is another discussion item in and of itself), he needs to teach his pitchers and catchers how to execute them properly.

Manny A

We are talking 10 year old kids...I have very seldom seen balks called at 10 years of age...I mean come on...Also the OP never said that the catcher was outside the box just that the coach told them to intentionally walk...I assume this wasnt rec ball as in our league you dont even have to throw the pitches on an intentional walk in 9-10 year old baseball...You just announce to the ump what your intentions are and you can only do it 1 time per game.

Maybe the ump thought the coached called balk and not walk....

Rule right or wrong its a BS way to end a 10 year old game...in any league

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by dolphindan1

Also the OP never said that the catcher was outside the box just that the coach told them to intentionally walk.

The OP also said the plate umpire called a catcher's balk. If the plate umpire ruled a catcher's balk, that's exactly what the catcher did. A catcher is not allowed to be outside of his box on an intentional walk until after the pitcher starts his pitching motion.

Originally Posted by dolphindan1

I assume this wasnt rec ball as in our league you dont even have to throw the pitches on an intentional walk in 9-10 year old baseball...You just announce to the ump what your intentions are and you can only do it 1 time per game.

The OP said it was a travel league, not rec ball. And not all rec ball leagues allow announced intentional walks. LL, for example, requires the pitcher to deliver four pitches for an intentional walk. It discourages coaches from using the intentional walk as a tool if the pitcher has to actually throw pitches. Personally, I think IBBs have no place in 10U ball, whether they're announced or they require actual pitches, but that's just me.

Manny

[dolphindan1]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The OP also said the plate umpire called a catcher's balk. If the plate umpire ruled a catcher's balk, that's exactly what the catcher did. A catcher is not allowed to be outside of his box on an intentional walk until after the pitcher starts his pitching motion.



The OP said it was a travel league, not rec ball. And not all rec ball leagues allow announced intentional walks. LL, for example, requires the pitcher to deliver four pitches for an intentional walk. It discourages coaches from using the intentional walk as a tool if the pitcher has to actually throw pitches. Personally, I think IBBs have no place in 10U ball, whether they're announced or they require actual pitches, but that's just me.

Manny

Again 10 year olds and in 10u travel 9 year olds too...gimme a break...travel or rec its a ridiculous call

[darbypitcher22]

not sure I agree with its enforcement in a 10U game, but if you're playing by HS rules in the tourney, then the guy was well within the rules to call it. I'd rather have a guy call it by the rules than not enforce it and cost me later. I've never seen a catcher's balk called, but I've seen a game decided by a Fielder's Balk and have also witness a "Balk-Off" from a pitcher.

[LittleGlavine]

These kids are only 10 years old at the most. Theyre still trying to get the fundamentals down. As far as Im concerned, an umpire for that age group is basically another coach out there. They call the basic game and do their best to point out the little things. When you were 10, did you know the 13 basic ways to balk.

[RKKay]

Originally Posted by Macker

While it probably was the correct call, I don't see any sense in calling it in a 10U league. In my local league, the umpires don't even call 'normal' balks. The ump will make note of it with no penalty. Then the ump and/or coach will instruct the kid. Going strictly by the book, an ump could easily call 50 balks in these games. I've seen high school freshman leagues where the first balk is just a warning with no penalty. Certainly the pitcher & catcher should be further coached on this, but in 10U, the ump shouldn't be calling it.

Agree 100%

[Rajun Cajun]

I don't know of any 10 U and 11U leagues whereby the coach can't just "DECLARE" that this is an intentional walk. No pitching required at this age. Nations and USSSA are the same way.

[Murz]

This same situation happend to me when I was 9 YO, catching a rec league game, bottom of the 9th. My dad was the coach and went nuts because not only did the ump call it on me once, he called me for it three times in a row, balking in the winning run. My dad was furious because he had asked the ump each time to explaine to me and the pitcher what we were doing wrong, but the ump refused to. My dad was kicked out of the game...

I understand that it was a legal call. I also understand that the ump does not have to explaine his calls at any point... but c'mon we were 9 years old