How good are college teams compared to the minors?

[whiteyball1977]

Just as the title says, how good are college teams compared to the minors? I'm talking about major D1 programs. Talent wise, how do they compare to the minors?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I remember Bill James wrote about this in one of his "Baseball" books. He was commenting on the idea that D1 college baseball is on the level of Double-A baseball. James didn't agree with that. He further said that he watched the 1989 NCAA champion Wichita St. Shockers up close and compared them to the 1989 Wichita Wranglers (AA) that had Andy Benes. According to James' observations there was no comparison. James believed that the Wranglers would beat the Shockers anytime Benes pitched and win seven out of 10 when Benes didn't pitch. I'll try to dig up the article and post it.

[spark240]

You can tell by watching (closely) a bunch of games in the respective leagues, as James did (and I have), or you can just look at the career tracks of players who have played in good college programs and in the minors.

Very good college players (as opposed to phenoms) are ready to move into the lower rungs of the minor league ladder, well below AA.

Even phenoms usually don't go straight to AA.

Lots of players who looked very good to great in college find themselves topping out before they ever play AA ball.

When you're talking whole teams, I think James' suggestion that the college team might win 3 of 10 against the AA team is, if anything, generous to the college team.

[Evan.K]

Originally Posted by whiteyball1977

Just as the title says, how good are college teams compared to the minors? I'm talking about major D1 programs. Talent wise, how do they compare to the minors?

I cant compare them, because college kids use metal bats, making college hitters better (to a degree, anyway) and college pitchers worse (again, to a degree).

[davewashere]

Don't college teams routinely play major league teams in spring training games? Those "major league" teams are usually made up of lots of minor leaguers and a few of the regulars from the big league club, so there's probably at least an average of AA talent. Baseball is one of the few sports where a college team could beat a professional team, because an amateur pitcher having a great day is just as good or better than a pro pitcher having a bad day.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Originally Posted by davewashere

Don't college teams routinely play major league teams in spring training games? Those "major league" teams are usually made up of lots of minor leaguers and a few of the regulars from the big league club, so there's probably at least an average of AA talent. Baseball is one of the few sports where a college team could beat a professional team, because an amateur pitcher having a great day is just as good or better than a pro pitcher having a bad day.

I don't think it's routine. I have followed the Giants closely for years and I can't remember even one time when they played a college team. I do remember the Braves playing Georgia or Georgia Tech a while back. I did find this article from 2008.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...ames-mlb_N.htm

[spark240]

Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules

I don't think it's routine.

It's routine for some organizations (such as the Braves) to play a collegiate opponent or two in the spring, often as their very first games of the year. Other organizations never picked up the idea.

Originally Posted by davewashere

Baseball is one of the few sports where a college team could beat a professional team, because an amateur pitcher having a great day is just as good or better than a pro pitcher having a bad day.

Theoretically, yes, but in practice even split-squad major/minor league spring training teams typically pummel their collegiate opponents (scores like 10-0 and 14-1), even though--one would think--the game is a lot more meaningful for the college guys.

I recall a few years ago, when the Detroit Tigers were still in their really bad phase, they played a college team in ST and came away with a tie after 10 innings or so. This was seen (by those who noticed) as a disgraceful showing by the Tigers. It was not simply chalked up to "an amateur pitcher having a great day."

[ribant]

[quote=spark240;1639539]It's routine for some organizations (such as the Braves) to play a collegiate opponent or two in the spring, often as their very first games of the year. Other organizations never picked up the idea.



Theoretically, yes, but in practice even split-squad major/minor league spring training teams typically pummel their collegiate opponents (scores like 10-0 and 14-1), even though--one would think--the game is a lot more meaningful for the college guys.

I recall a few years ago, when the Detroit Tigers were still in their really bad phase, they played a college team in ST and came away with a tie after 10 innings or so. This was seen (by those who noticed) as a disgraceful showing by the Tigers. It was not simply chalked up to "an amateur pitcher having a great day."[/QUOTE]

In Ball Four Jim Bouton said MLB players hate playing college teams because they never come out looking good.

If they win big - big deal they should win big
If they lose they are bums.