2009 Yankees one of the best teams ever?

[Blackout]

just throwing it out there


Tex
Arod
Jeter
C.C.
MARIANO (the best closer ever)

[CorduroyCalves]

No!!!!!!!!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Jee, what, it's been five minutes since the '09 Yankees won the World Series? And no, THEY ARE NOWHERE CLOSE TO BEING ONE THE BEST TEAMS EVER. You're over-the-top Yankee homer-ism never ceases to amaze me.

[Blackout]

Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules

Jee, what, it's been five minutes since the '09 Yankees won the World Series? And no, THEY ARE NOWHERE CLOSE TO BEING ONE THE BEST TEAMS EVER. You're over-the-top Yankee homer-ism never ceases to amaze me.

i was making threads of them being a historic offense like 2 months ago



get off my back

[Ace Venom]

And you ignore the 1998 and 1927 Yankees? I wouldn't put the 2009 Yankees in my top ten.

[Blackout]

Originally Posted by Ace Venom

And you ignore the 1998 Yankees? I wouldn't put the 2009 Yankees in my top ten.

other than winning a few more regular season games, how was the 98 team better than the '09 team?


C.C. > any pitcher on '98 squad (including El Duque)

the Offense = much better

Mariano = just as good

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Originally Posted by Blackout

i was making threads of them being a historic offense like 2 months ago

And we all pretty much proved that assertion wrong didn't we.

[Ace Venom]

Originally Posted by Blackout

other than winning a few more regular season games, how was the 98 team better than the '09 team?

I consider the 1998 Yankees one of those juggernaut teams, but they hover around the lower end of my top 10. Certainly not on the level of the 1927 Yankees, but you catch my drift. The 2009 Yankees just don't grab me that much like some of those other teams did.

[CorduroyCalves]

Originally Posted by Blackout

other than winning a few more regular season games, how was the 98 team better than the '09 team?


C.C. > any pitcher on '98 squad (including El Duque)

the Offense = much better

Mariano = just as good

Well, if that's the case, then you should throw the 2000 Yankee$ into the mix. . .

[Blackout]

Originally Posted by Ace Venom

I consider the 1998 Yankees one of those juggernaut teams, but they hover around the lower end of my top 10. Certainly not on the level of the 1927 Yankees, but you catch my drift. The 2009 Yankees just don't grab me that much like some of those other teams did.

well I certainly respect your opinion sir.


I look at this team and see one of the best offensive infields ever (Tex-Cano-Jeter-Arod), a WORKHORSE starter (CC) and the best closer of all time (Mariano). that's a lot of pieces to the puzzle, you feel me??

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Originally Posted by Blackout

other than winning a few more regular season games, how was the 98 team better than the '09 team?

A Few more games? Try 11 more games.

C.C. > any pitcher on '98 squad (including El Duque)

The '98 Yankee pitching blows away the '09 Yankees pitching. The '98 team had a 116 ERA+, the '09 team just 104 ERA+.

the Offense = much better

Wrong again. The '98 team scored 50 more runs than the '09 team.

Mariano = just as good

I'll give you this one.

[SavoyBG]

Originally Posted by Blackout

just throwing it out there


Tex
Arod
Jeter
C.C.
MARIANO (the best closer ever)

They are not even one of the top 10 Yankees teams. Not even close.

[RationalNYYfan]

Absolutely not close. The talent was there, but everything else came from $$$$ and not raw team chemistry, IMO

[SavoyBG]

Originally Posted by RationalNYYfan

Absolutely not close. The talent was there, but everything else came from $$$$ and not raw team chemistry, IMO

What the hell that that have to do with whether or not they were one of the greatest teams ever?

They weren't, but that has NOTHING to do with where things came from. It had to do with only have one great starter and two good starters, only a fair 4th starter, and no real 5th starter, so so middle relief, weak OF defense, etc....

[Blackout]

what does money have to do with making a team better???


as if a player is going to hit .400 if getting paid 20 million and .200 if getting paid 2 milly



and HWR, my stalker, 1998 was also during the STEROIDS era...ofcourse offenses scored more runs. that's just plain silly.

[SavoyBG]

Originally Posted by Blackout

what does money have to do with making a team better???


as if a player is going to hit .400 if getting paid 20 million and .200 if getting paid 2 milly



and HWR, my stalker, 1998 was also during the STEROIDS era...ofcourse offenses scored more runs. that's just plain silly.

Money has loads to do with making a team better. Without the 400+ million they spent on CC, AJ and Tex they would not have won anything.

But it has nothing to do with judging if they were a great team or not. How they got to be great is irrelevant. Either they were great or they weren't.

[Blackout]

so a team of Ryan Howard, Chase Utley and Jimmy Rollins is chop liver?


1-there is NOT a salary cap. any team can put it's profits into it's lineup if they wanted to but most owners (many richer than the Steinbrenners) choose to pocket their $$$. blame your teams owner for not winning.

2.it's not like they didn't have to go out there and win 4 out of 7 games

[dominik]

I think that this is definitely a great team.

Let's compare them pos. by pos. to the late 90 team instead of flaming each other.

Yes blackout is a homer sometimes, but I do think it fares quite well with the late 90 multiple champion team.

[White Knight]

Originally Posted by Ace Venom

And you ignore the 1998 and 1927 Yankees? I wouldn't put the 2009 Yankees in my top ten.

The 1998 team is way overrated. They overachieved, while this team underachieved. They would have had a better first half if A-Rod wasn't out until mid-May and Tex didn't get off to a slow start. With that, combined with a top notch manager, they would have easily won 110+ games.

[dominik]

I agree. They could have won more. Arod was a factor, but their biggest problem in the beginning of the season was their pitching.

Anyone wants to do a head to head position by position late 90s to 2009?

I would say their pitching then was a little better, but their hitting now is much better.

Of course the team with babe and gehrig should be even better but with the late 90s team it competes well I think.

[kairosntx]

Originally Posted by Blackout

just throwing it out there

I was thinking this is one of the worst Yankees teams in history (2001-2009) since it took them 9 years with the highest payroll in baseball to buy a world series title. 9 years of 180+ million dollar payroll equals more than $1.6 BILLION of mediocrity. If they don't win they should be ashamed of themselves.

[bob]

This year the Yankees had a Pythagorean expected win/lose of 95-67. That shows they had a significant amount of luck over the regular season.

And no the '09 Yankees will not go down as a historically great team IMO. Offense was pretty decent but their new stadium seems pretty nice on home runs, we'll need to give it a few years to see how much of an effect it has.

Pitching was again good, but not great. CC was consistently good but not a CYA season (and id hardly call 230IP "workhorse", although the yardstick for measuring workhorseness seems to be dropping every year. Soon pitching over 200IP will be considered a workhorse...), Burnett and Pettitte were around average and Joba got tired after more than 6 innings. They had no real 5th starter which kind of shows that their pitching could still be improved on.

Yes they were clearly the best team in MLB this year (well since last May they were, remember the woeful start blackout?) but just because they were the only standout team doesnt make them historically great.

[STLCards2]

Originally Posted by White Knight

The 1998 team is way overrated. They overachieved, while this team underachieved. They would have had a better first half if A-Rod wasn't out until mid-May and Tex didn't get off to a slow start. With that, combined with a top notch manager, they would have easily won 110+ games.

Agreed, but if you "improve" everybody's injuries and everybody's struggling players, everybody would be better.

2009 Yankes: great team, not all-time. Easily the best regular season and playoff team. Well-deserved.

[brett]

The Yankees do have a near all-time great offense with a 119 OPS+, 915 runs in a DEEP LEAGUE and even with 111 steals in 139 attempts (79.9%). In fact I don't know if anyone caught this but they had 7 guys with 80 or more RBI which I think may have broken the all time record!

Baseball prospectus has them at only -11 runs on defense, though Jeter is still -11 this year and Teixeira is below average at -1 and I would bet on both of those guys winning gold gloves this year. No Yankee should be in the gold glove conversation though Cano has become solidly above average to my suprise.

(Jeter now had 15 straight years of 0 or negative defensive runs and is 170 for his career but he's actually not as horrible as 2000 to 2003 so he probably can last at SS at this point.

If they added a true ace starter they might be in the all-time conversation next year if they can maintain their offense (some guys will drop but others should have better years). Say they add Halliday and he has a full season, 140 ERA+, 230 innings, that would probably push them to that level if everything else stays the same-Posada has one more year, Rivera has another year, Damon can repeat etc.

BY the way the Yankees now have at least 2 championships in every decade from the 1920s to the 2000s except the 80s (a decade where I think they actually lead the majors in regular season wins).

Championships by decade:

1920s: 3
1930s: 5
1940s: 4
1950s: 6
1960s: 2
1970s: 2
1980s: 0
1990s: 3
2000s: 2

[dgarza]

The 2009 Yankees were good (obviously), but I don't even think they were the best Yankee team of this decade. I don't think the pitching was overwhelming this year. Their offense was the best in the last 30 years, but their pitching sinks them in my rankings.

My Yankee team Top 10 from the last 30 years:

#1
1998
Team OPS+ 116
Team ERA+ 116

#2
1981
Team OPS+ 108
Team ERA+ 123

#3
2002
Team OPS+ 114
Team ERA+ 114

#4
1997
Team OPS+ 108
Team ERA+ 117

#5
1999
Team OPS+ 110
Team ERA+ 114

#6
1994
Team OPS+ 118
Team ERA+ 106

#7
2003
Team OPS+ 114
Team OPS+ 109

#8
2009
Team OPS+ 119
Team ERA+ 104

#9
1980
Team OPS+ 112
Team ERA+ 109

#10
1985
Team OPS+ 112
Team ERA+ 109