Single Most Dominating Pitch By 1 Pitcher

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

I thought it would be interesting to read what people had to say regarding this topic after positing this question minutes ago on another thread:

It's been asked many times before but I still haven't found the answer: How can someone (Mariano Rivera) who throws the same pitch over & over continue to dominate hitters so thoroughly? I'm still dumbfounded by his results considering a batter only has to look for 1 pitch. That cut fastball is probably the single most dominant pitch by any pitcher in baseball history.

It is impossible for me to fathom better results from a pitcher who essentially throws the same pitch time & again yet is so effective. I mean, if Nolan Ryan was a relief pitcher and threw only 101 MPH fastballs, could he yield the same results as Rivera? If Steve Carleton only threw that biting slider, how good would he have been? How about Sandy Koufax throwing only the wicked curveball?? When I think about dominating with 1 pitch as a starter, Greg Maddux comes to mind with the 2-seam fastball although he also frequently threw that great change-up.

So who do you guys think has THE single most dominating pitch in baseball history and why. Let's try limiting this to guys who had at least 5 years of consistant success (Sorry Mike Scott).

[EricAnno]

These would be my top ten, in no particular order

Roger Clemens' splitter
Pedro Martinez's circle-changeup
Mariano Rivera's cutter
Randy Johnson's slider
Bert Blyleven's curveball
Steve Carlton's slider
Trevor Hoffman's circle-changeup
Nolan Ryan's fastball
Sandy Koufax's curveball
Robb Nen's slider

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Just one further point,

The poll is heavily weighted for fastballs because a pitcher cannot continuously throw nothing but changeups or curveballs and be effective. Even the best of those must be complemented with the fastball to retain their effectiveness. Of course, Sandy Koufax's curveball may have been so good that it might be conceivable that he could pitch a whole game on mostly curveballs and still be dominating. That's up to you to decide.

Other Notable Candidates

Billy Wagner 4-Seam Fastball
Bruce Sutter Forkball
Bob Gibson 4-Seam Fastball
Carl Hubbell Screwball
Satchel Paige 4-Seam Fastball

[bob]

Of pitchers ive seen in their form on video, Nolan's Fastball when it was on, it was near unbeatable. Pedro in the late 90's could come close. Rivera is certainly up there, he has the advantage of only throwing 1 or maybe 2 innings so can go all out on every pitch, with pretty devestating results.

[mwiggins]

Originally Posted by bob

Rivera is certainly up there, he has the advantage of only throwing 1 or maybe 2 innings so can go all out on every pitch, with pretty devestating results.

And he never had to get guys out 3-4 times in a game with it. It may well have been the "best" pitch ever, but there's a much smaller sample size of domination than say with Walter Johnson's fastball that was dominating enough to get guys out for 9 innings when they knew it was coming.

[mwiggins]

Originally Posted by Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan

Of course, Sandy Koufax's curveball may have been so good that it might be conceivable that he could pitch a whole game on mostly curveballs and still be dominating. That's up to you to decide.
[b][u]

He could and did pitch games with basically nothing but fastballs, though. His curve was great, but I think his fastball was his most dominating pitch. Esp during those years when he was getting the high strike call.

[Francoeurstein]

3 words: Mr. Snappy.

[rsuriyop]

Voted other: that fastball-slider Randy Johnson used to throw that always seemed to go right below the knees.

[Joltin' Joe]

How can you guys tell how devastating The Big Six's fadeaway or The Big Train's heat was?

I think Pedro's curve in the late 1990s was the most devastaing. The one that came at you like 90 mph and had that quick hop.

[ol' aches and pains]

I see Mariano Rivera is leading in the early returns, but the polls haven't closed. I voted for the Sandy Koufax curveball. Rivera only faces a hitter once a night. Koufax usually faced hitters 3 or four times a night, and was still virtually unhittable for 5 years.

[ItsOnlyGil]

In no order:
Ed Walsh: spitter
Warren Spahn: skroogie
Hoyt Wilhelm: knuckler
Candy Cummings: curveball
Herb Score: fastball
others as noted, and yet to be cited.

[nyykan_t]

It's between Big Train and Mo to me. I pick Mo instead of Big Train only because I have seen Mo pitched. It's hard for me to pick Koufax, Blyleven, Pedro or Randy Johnson because all of them have two great pitches. Their fastball all were very dominant which made their breaking pitch much harder to hit.

[dominik]

Schillings fb was also great when he was in his prime.

[Bill Burgess]

1. Walter Johnson's fastball
2. Nolan Ryan's fastball
3. Nolan Ryan's curveball
4. Billy Wagner's fastball
5. Christy Mathewson's screwball (fadeaway)
6. Amos Rusie's fastball
7. Hoyt Wilhelm's knuckeball
8. Carl Hubbell's screwball
9. Roy Face's forkball
10. Satchel Paige's fastball
11. Roger Clemens' split-fingered fastball
12. Pedro Martinez's circle-changeup
13. Mariano Rivera's backdoor cutter
14. Randy Johnson's backdoor slider
15. Sandy Koufax's curveball
16. Ed Walsh's spitball
17. Three-Fingered Brown's curveball
18. Jack Chesbro's spitball

[Bill Burgess]

Originally Posted by Joltin' Joe

How can you guys tell how devastating The Big Six's fadeaway or The Big Train's heat was?

You can't. I'm just going on results.

Walter Johnson had amazing results with only his one pitch, and great control. Most good pitchers achieve great results with a combination of good pitches. They mix them up and it's the repertoire that gained for them good results. All except Johnson.

Even Nolan Ryan set up his fastball with his curve, and visa versa. Hoyt Wilhelm had basicly the one pitch. So Johnson/Wilhelm were basicly one-pitch guys, which made that pitch pretty effective.

[Michael Green]

While I voted for Koufax's curveball, I think of Game 7 of the 1965 World Series. Around the 4th inning, after Koufax had shaken off every curveball sign, John Roseboro walked to the mound and asked him why. Koufax said it was because he didn't have a curveball that day. Roseboro said, so what do we do? Koufax said, "We'll fastball 'em." Koufax won, 2-0, and struck out 14 ONLY with his fastball.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Originally Posted by Bill Burgess

You can't. I'm just going on results.

Walter Johnson had amazing results with only his one pitch, and great control. Most good pitchers achieve great results with a combination of good pitches. They mix them up and it's the repertoire that gained for them good results. All except Johnson.

Even Nolan Ryan set up his fastball with his curve, and visa versa. Hoyt Wilhelm had basicly the one pitch. So Johnson/Wilhelm were basicly one-pitch guys, which made that pitch pretty effective.

I'm tempted to go with my bias and say the Greg Maddux 2-Seam fastball based on peak; specifically his 7-year peak from 1992-1998 when he won 4 Cy Youngs. Of course, Maddux used a great changeup and occasional cut fastball and slider, but he was 70% 2-seamers. I've never seen a fastball move 12 inches like that and when he threw 91-92 MPH during his peak it was almost unhittable. The most impressive thing was not that he allowed the lowest batting average compared to others, but the control and lack of HR allowed right in the heart of the greatest hitting era in baseball history.

But I didn't know the Big Train basically only used fastballs when he pitched. If he was able to compile that record on the fastball alone its hard to beat that! And Rivera is just spectacular. Tough choices.

[Eastvanmungo]

Some worthy additions...

Randy Johnson's slider
Stu Miller's change-up
Bert Blyleven's curve
Nolan Ryan's curve

[Blackout]

Originally Posted by Bill Burgess

1. Walter Johnson's fastball
2. Nolan Ryan's fastball
3. Nolan Ryan's curveball
4. Billy Wagner's fastball
5. Christy Mathewson's screwball (fadeaway)
6. Amos Rusie's fastball
7. Hoyt Wilhelm's knuckeball
8. Carl Hubbell's screwball
9. Roy Face's forkball
10. Satchel Paige's fastball
11. Roger Clemens' split-fingered fastball
12. Pedro Martinez's circle-changeup
13. Mariano Rivera's backdoor cutter
14. Randy Johnson's backdoor slider
15. Sandy Koufax's curveball
16. Ed Walsh's spitball
17. Three-Fingered Brown's curveball
18. Jack Chesbro's spitball

in what world is Billy WAgner's fastball been more dominating than ariano's cutter????????????????????????


that list is rather silly

[bob]

Originally Posted by Blackout

in what world is Billy WAgner's fastball been more dominating than ariano's cutter????????????????????????


that list is rather silly

I agree id say Mo's cutter is better, but Wagner is certainly up there for 1-pitch closers for dominating pitch.

[Bill Burgess]

Originally Posted by Blackout

in what world is Billy WAgner's fastball been more dominating than ariano's cutter????????????????????????

Oh, I don't know. Maybe my world.

Originally Posted by Blackout

that list is rather silly

Well, what did you expect? A silly list from a silly man.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

From what I have seen, it's Rivera's cutter.
Stop and think, he does not have a great assortment of pitches.

Often the batter could guess it's coming and even when they guess right, more often than not, they can't do anything with that pitch.

Take a good look at some at bats against him, the batter swings, knows he has to get the barrel of the bat on the ball, swings with that intention, looks like he succeeded and he still hits the ball on the handle.

It can only mean he has one of the sharpest, late breaking balls around, there goes another bat.
He doesn't break as many as he once did but is still very effective. I can recall seeing him break 4 or 5 bats in one inning.

Unlike some of the other great pitches on the list, other pitchers are more effective when the batter swings and misses.
But with Mo, they can make contact and still not drive the ball.

[Joltin' Joe]

Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3

Unlike some of the other great pitches on the list, other pitchers are more effective when the batter swings and misses.
But with Mo, they can make contact and still not drive the ball.

Yes but that itself is irrelevant. The end result is what matters. In fact a pitch that is designed to miss rather than make weak contact is better. A ball put in play however weak has potential to do damage.....as we both painfully witnessed in November 2001.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Originally Posted by Joltin' Joe

Yes but that itself is irrelevant. The end result is what matters. In fact a pitch that is designed to miss rather than make weak contact is better. A ball put in play however weak has potential to do damage.....as we both painfully witnessed in November 2001.

OK, call it irrelevant, I was speaking of when that pitch is hit, often there is no contact. I'm sure there had to be times when every pitcher on that list had their best pitch hit. Not often because we all know what that pitch meant to them.

If we look at his strikeouts, 1090 innings, 1006 strikeouts lots of no contact.

Your giving one example, yes painful and stands out because it was the WS, I'm looking at the whole career.

[Surf-Bat]

Wasn't it Three-Finger Brown's CURVEBALL(not moving fastball) that Ty Cobb called "The most devastating pitch I have ever faced"?

Either way, that's high praise coming from the man who may have been the greatest baseball player of them all.

Just something to consider....