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  • #46
    Originally posted by Evangelion
    L - Youkillis
    R - Loretta
    L - Hinske
    R - Manny

    That would be the logical to having Hinske ahead of Manny. To give the line-up a left to hand look. Nixon better protection than Hinske behide Manny, even if he's just coming off the DL.
    I guess. . . I never considered the lefty-righty thing. It still hurts to have a .25something hitter in the 3-hole, though. Isn't Papi due to come back tomorrow?

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    • #47
      Even though hes made his mistakes, i still dont think francona is a bad manager. Id much rather have him than Little, who just used his dumb hunches instead of logic, charts, and scouting reports.

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      • #48
        I believe Papi due back tomorrow. Most of our team returning. Let's just hope Curt won't miss his next start, but I haven't heard much regarding Curt. From what I heard, Papelbon got an MRI done today, so let's hope he's only out for a week.

        5.5 out and our schedule not as brutal as the Twins and White Sox and with our position players returning, we might be able to sneak into the playoff.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by EvanAparra
          Even though hes made his mistakes, i still dont think francona is a bad manager. Id much rather have him than Little, who just used his dumb hunches instead of logic, charts, and scouting reports.
          Honestly, whenever I feel frustrated with Francona, I imagine Little in that dugout and it calms my nerves considerably.
          "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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          • #50
            So who would the ideal manager for the Red Sox be, if not Francona?
            "I believe in the Church of Baseball. I tried all the major religions and most of the minor ones. I've worshipped Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms and Isadora Duncan. I know things. For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance." ~Ron Shelton, from Bull Durham

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            • #51
              Originally posted by maximum jack
              So who would the ideal manager for the Red Sox be, if not Francona?
              After watching this season, I'm wondering how we can steal Joe Girardi.
              "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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              • #52
                Originally posted by EvanAparra
                Even though hes made his mistakes, i still dont think francona is a bad manager. Id much rather have him than Little, who just used his dumb hunches instead of logic, charts, and scouting reports.
                I didn't agree with everything Little did, but his hunches were pretty good. His hunch to leave Pedro on the hill in the 2003 ALCS was about as far off as anything he was ever wrong about, but I was mad at that decision for two reasons. First, he blew the pennant for the Sox; but secondly, there was no keeping him after that decision and I thought he deserved a lot better than that kind of an exit. Heck, if he would have just owned up and admit it was the wrong choice, I think a lot of fans would have forgiven him.

                Now we have a 3rd reason to be angry because winning the WS in 2004 validated the ownership's "rubber-stamp" model for managing. I will say one thing for Francona, when the team wins he gets very little credit and when it loses he takes more than his share of the blame. I still don't like him as Red Sox manager, though.

                2007 World Series Champions
                The Boston Red Sox

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by FlashGordon
                  I didn't agree with everything Little did, but his hunches were pretty good. His hunch to leave Pedro on the hill in the 2003 ALCS was about as far off as anything he was ever wrong about, but I was mad at that decision for two reasons. First, he blew the pennant for the Sox; but secondly, there was no keeping him after that decision and I thought he deserved a lot better than that kind of an exit. Heck, if he would have just owned up and admit it was the wrong choice, I think a lot of fans would have forgiven him.

                  Now we have a 3rd reason to be angry because winning the WS in 2004 validated the ownership's "rubber-stamp" model for managing. I will say one thing for Francona, when the team wins he gets very little credit and when it loses he takes more than his share of the blame. I still don't like him as Red Sox manager, though.
                  it's impossible for us to know what was a hunch and what wasn't, so i'm not sure anyone can say how often they were right or wrong. but i do know that i'd rather have a pure numbers guy than a pure hunch guy, and that i'd prefer not to have either.

                  and my feelings for him wouldn't have softened for him at all if he apologized. he made terrible decisions all throughout the year. pitching BK 6 times in a week coming down the stretch or w/e it was, abandaoning him in the ALDS when he was close to working out of his own jame, and little wouldn't let him finish it, ALWAYS doing the lefty/lefty crap, even when the hitter at the plate was a lefty who killed lefties lol. admittedly, when it comes to managers i am very hard to please, lol, but i know that tito is miles from perfect, and miles ahead from little.

                  i'm beginning to forgive tito more and more, to the point that i think he is only bad with his starters (not even the bullpen guys, although he does go for lefty/lefty matchups far too often, too), and is too loyal. but he is SO bad with his starters, i think that alone might make him a below average manager. and the loyalty is a case by case situation, but i think people tend to forget that by being loyal to millar for about 155 games too long, he was making the other guys on the team suffer.

                  tito is respected as an incredible personality manager, and to me that is probably the most important job a manager can have, and i've always let that alone keep me from wanting him to get fired (actually i spend every second of every game wanting him fired, but i forgave him after every game, because of his ability to keep players upbeat). but after watching this team, and how dead and lethargic it seemed (the life is starting to come back a little bit now), i think he might be fried and he may've lost that touch.

                  you can pretty much bet the house on the fact that he'll be there until schil moves out, though.

                  Originally posted by SoxSon
                  After watching this season, I'm wondering how we can steal Joe Girardi.
                  i assume (and this assumption is based entirely on the fact he manages the marlins, i haven't looked into this at all) girardi is the kind of guy that likes to send the runners every other pitch, and preaches the importance of "manufacturing runs."

                  if that's not the case though, i'd love to see the sox get him. the sox are, afterall, turning more and more into a team of young kids that will likely need to be kept in check a little (though granted they're still galaxies away from the marlins in that regard)
                  Last edited by PhilWings24; 09-06-2006, 04:30 PM.
                  Gelatin Fernandalism

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by PhilWings24
                    it's impossible for us to know what was a hunch and what wasn't, so i'm not sure anyone can say how often they were right or wrong. but i do know that i'd rather have a pure numbers guy than a pure hunch guy, and that i'd prefer not to have either.

                    and my feelings for him wouldn't have softened for him at all if he apologized. he made terrible decisions all throughout the year. pitching BK 6 times in a week coming down the stretch or w/e it was, abandaoning him in the ALDS when he was close to working out of his own jame, and little wouldn't let him finish it, ALWAYS doing the lefty/lefty crap, even when the hitter at the plate was a lefty who killed lefties lol. admittedly, when it comes to managers i am very hard to please, lol, but i know that tito is miles from perfect, and miles ahead from little.

                    i'm beginning to forgive tito more and more, to the point that i think he is only bad with his starters (not even the bullpen guys, although he does go for lefty/lefty matchups far too often, too), and is too loyal. but he is SO bad with his starters, i think that alone might make him a below average manager. and the loyalty is a case by case situation, but i think people tend to forget that by being loyal to millar for about 155 games too long, he was making the other guys on the team suffer.

                    tito is respected as an incredible personality manager, and to me that is probably the most important job a manager can have, and i've always let that alone keep me from wanting him to get fired (actually i spend every second of every game wanting him fired, but i forgave him after every game, because of his ability to keep players upbeat). but after watching this team, and how dead and lethargic it seemed (the life is starting to come back a little bit now), i think he might be fried and he may've lost that touch.

                    you can pretty much bet the house on the fact that he'll be there until schil moves out, though.



                    i assume (and this assumption is based entirely on the fact he manages the marlins, i haven't looked into this at all) girardi is the kind of guy that likes to send the runners every other pitch, and preaches the importance of "manufacturing runs."

                    if that's not the case though, i'd love to see the sox get him. the sox are, afterall, turning more and more into a team of young kids that will likely need to be kept in check a little (though granted they're still galaxies away from the marlins in that regard)
                    Have you read "Feeding the Monster"?

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by FlashGordon
                      I didn't agree with everything Little did, but his hunches were pretty good.

                      I'm going to have to reevaluate my opinion of you, Flash.

                      While Little was managing, I used to keep a journal of every in-game error that I felt he made. Needless to say, I ran out of blank pages.
                      "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by PhilWings24
                        it's impossible for us to know what was a hunch and what wasn't, so i'm not sure anyone can say how often they were right or wrong. but i do know that i'd rather have a pure numbers guy than a pure hunch guy, and that i'd prefer not to have either.

                        and my feelings for him wouldn't have softened for him at all if he apologized. he made terrible decisions all throughout the year. pitching BK 6 times in a week coming down the stretch or w/e it was, abandaoning him in the ALDS when he was close to working out of his own jame, and little wouldn't let him finish it, ALWAYS doing the lefty/lefty crap, even when the hitter at the plate was a lefty who killed lefties lol. admittedly, when it comes to managers i am very hard to please, lol, but i know that tito is miles from perfect, and miles ahead from little.

                        i'm beginning to forgive tito more and more, to the point that i think he is only bad with his starters (not even the bullpen guys, although he does go for lefty/lefty matchups far too often, too), and is too loyal. but he is SO bad with his starters, i think that alone might make him a below average manager. and the loyalty is a case by case situation, but i think people tend to forget that by being loyal to millar for about 155 games too long, he was making the other guys on the team suffer.

                        tito is respected as an incredible personality manager, and to me that is probably the most important job a manager can have, and i've always let that alone keep me from wanting him to get fired (actually i spend every second of every game wanting him fired, but i forgave him after every game, because of his ability to keep players upbeat). but after watching this team, and how dead and lethargic it seemed (the life is starting to come back a little bit now), i think he might be fried and he may've lost that touch.
                        You forget that Grady still had the Sox within striking distance and the team won 93 & 95 games in his two years as manager. That gut might have been the difference of a game or two, but the difference is every bit within the sabermatic margin of error. And FWIW, Grady is currently managing the team leading the NLW--without Eric Gagne in his bullpen.

                        2007 World Series Champions
                        The Boston Red Sox

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by FlashGordon
                          And FWIW, Grady is currently managing the team leading the NLW--without Eric Gagne in his bullpen.
                          Keep in mind that leading the NL West is a bit like being king of Rhode Island.
                          They're leading with a .529 win percentage, with San Diego one game back.
                          "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by SoxSon
                            I'm going to have to reevaluate my opinion of you, Flash.

                            While Little was managing, I used to keep a journal of every in-game error that I felt he made. Needless to say, I ran out of blank pages.
                            I don't want anyone to have the impression that I think Little is the greatest manager in team history. I just think that for a guy who managed more by instinct than by statistics, the bone-headed moves were generally outweighed by the ones that paid off. I also don't think he's the manager who was most wronged by the owners. That distinction belongs to Jimy Williams.

                            2007 World Series Champions
                            The Boston Red Sox

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by SoxSon
                              Keep in mind that leading the NL West is a bit like being king of Rhode Island.
                              They're leading with a .529 win percentage, with San Diego one game back.
                              Oh, come now. Being the King of Rhode Island would be much better, although it still wouldn't buy the Sox a playoff spot this year. And it still wouldn't make Francona look like a genius.

                              2007 World Series Champions
                              The Boston Red Sox

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by FlashGordon
                                That distinction belongs to Jimy Williams.

                                Well, we're back to agreeing with each other. That wasn't so long, was it?
                                "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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