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  • With or without Manny?

    I would love to see Manny stay, but all indications of the trade talks lately show that he very well may be leaving Boston for real now. Tejada would be a great pickup, but how about the two holes in left and center field then? Yes there have been talks of getting an outfielder prospect from the O's, but NO ONE can come close to the numbers that Manny puts up. I want Manny to stay, but who do we get at short then? CF? what is going on in beantown?
    Back to being underdogs

  • #2
    As a Yankee fan, I think Manny still has 3-4 years left as an elite hitter in baseball

    therefore I say GET HIM OUTTA BEAN TOWN! he's bostons most dangerous hitter (and despite common belief, is more clutch than Big Papi), I'd love to see his bat replaced by over-rated Miguel Tejada's

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    • #3
      You guys might want to go over to the Hardball Times and check out a recent article on Ramirez versus Tejada.

      http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...ez-and-tejada/
      Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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      • #4
        Can we ban this blackout character?

        haha

        by the way.. Ortiz is way more clutch then Manny.. obviously
        you wouldn't know though cause you don't watch the sox..

        i think ortiz had atleast 5 walk-off home runs in 05
        twitter.com/NewEnglandFans

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RichardLikeWhoa
          Can we ban this blackout character?

          haha

          by the way.. Ortiz is way more clutch then Manny.. obviously
          you wouldn't know though cause you don't watch the sox..

          i think ortiz had atleast 5 walk-off home runs in 05
          I live in Maine, I get NESN, not the YES network, I watch plenty of Sawx games and have to hear about them from my friends constantly.

          I fear Manny more than Ortiz, I'm not convinced Ortiz would be so great if he didnt have Manny protecting him in the lineup.

          You've been here a month and you think you can call for banning me? Get outta here

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          • #6
            Boys, boys.... don't be getting into a brawl or anything.

            I think it's a given that Manny and Ortiz have a synergistic effect when they are in the lineup, offering each other protection in whichever order they bat. Remmeber, for most of '04, including the playoffs, Manny batted AHEAD of Papi, while this order was switched in '05. Manny was also in a nasty slump for the 1st 2 months of last season, so I'm not sure what protection he was offering until he started getting his feet under him in about June. I think that without Papi, we would have lost another 6-10 games last year. Without Manny, we probably would have lost about the same amount. (Take note that these are completely off-the-cuff thoughts, after a tiring day at work.)

            I don't want to lose Manny. Tejada might be a gem in the field but I don't think he comes close to Manny's offensive production. I like Tejada's dogged play, and his zest for the game, but I really don't want to lose Manny. I just don't.
            --Annie
            Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
            Remember Yellowdog
            ABNY

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            • #7
              I can't picture Manny staying another three or four years as unhappy as he seems to be. At some point he could decide to tank it and we have a .250 aging hitter making mucho millions that nobody would want.

              I feel the Tejada for Manny & Clement two team or three or even four team trade could be the best option we have. So we fix our infield problem and create a new outfield problem.
              "He's tougher than a railroad sandwich."
              "You'se Got The Eye Of An Eagle."

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              • #8
                I have stated by dislike for this trade for some time. Unless Tejada can be brought to Boston without dealing Manny, my dislike for this deal will remain. Like most people, I aware of Tejada being over-rated. There's no way that Tejada can match the offensive numbers and constant productivity of Manny Rameriz. While Tejada would fill our SS need, give us a very big gaping hole in LF and if none of you have notice, majority of the good OF are gone. You want a player like Terrance Long out in LF? I think not.

                Also, SS can easy be man by Gold Glove level SS Alex Gonzalez. I would prefer having Gonzalez over Tejada, if it meant keeping Manny Rameriz in Boston. Alex Gonzalez is similar to Cabrera in the fact that both are superior defensive SS, but not the greatest men with the bat. Trust me, Gonzalez is good at SS, unlike Renteria, who I knew would be questionable at SS.

                RichardLikeWhoa, clutch does make one player better than the other. Granted, Ortiz has had very meaningful hits for the Red Sox, but if you had to rank them, Rameriz constant offensive threat for all these years can not be question. Without Rameriz, Ortiz would not get the chance to put the numbers he put up, because people would be walking Ortiz the majority of the team. They feed off each another. I don't really care which one is better than the other as long as their on the same team.

                VTSoxFan, even when Rameriz was slumping. The fact still remain that he was Manny Rameriz and still offer protection to Ortiz, even when he was slumping. People would raise an eyebrow if you walked Ortiz to get to slugging Manny Rameriz, even if he was slumping. Manny will always offer protection to Ortiz, unless he suck for an entire year. Let's just say, if an off-offense season like Mike Lowell did last season.

                While I don't think Rameriz will tank a season. I won't put it beyond him to do such a thing, but I still doubt he would do that. It would destroy his creditbility around the league and make his value decline by a huge margin. We're talking about T.O. down-fall, because no team would want a player that tanks a season just to get out of a contract.

                CF? It's up in the air. Expect a trade for CF, because one of the last reasonable replacement for CF in the free agent market, Preston Wilson, signed with the Astros. So, expect a deal to be pulled for a CF once this block buster deal speculation is gone. Though, if the deal happen, then I believe the Red Sox get their CF in Joey Gatheright, so that would solve our problems for lead-off and CF, but that's a big ''if'' about this deal going down.

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                • #9
                  I seriously doubt Manny would tank an entire season. He might be lazy for a game or two but I honestly believe that he has too much pride as a player to deliberately play badly.

                  I remember early last season when Manny was slumping and some team DID walk Papi to get to him and he made them pay.

                  I agree, the team would be poorer by far without Manny. It was bad enough to lose one of the best pitchers in this generation; losing the best hitter will be doubly awful.
                  ------------
                  Here's the latest, from the Boston Globe

                  No Progress on Ramirez Deal
                  Last edited by VTSoxFan; 01-04-2006, 06:04 AM.
                  --Annie
                  Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
                  Remember Yellowdog
                  ABNY

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                    I remember early last season when Manny was slumping and some team DID walk Papi to get to him and he made them pay.
                    Yes, I remember during certain situations that teams have walked Ortiz to get to Manny Rameriz, even when he was not struggle. When I still see that, I'm still baffled why a team would do that.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Evangelion
                      Yes, I remember during certain situations that teams have walked Ortiz to get to Manny Rameriz, even when he was not struggle. When I still see that, I'm still baffled why a team would do that.
                      I've seen that debate going strong, but some fans have said that since Ortiz is the one who's always killing them, it may be worth a try.

                      I'd be very selective on doing this. If Manny has both hit into a GIDP or fanned twice, I may try it. If he's hit a deep double and a solo HR, I'd drop that idea like a hot tamale.
                      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
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                      THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                        Boys, boys.... don't be getting into a brawl or anything.
                        I'm sorry, I just have a thin line for ignorance


                        I don't want to lose Manny. Tejada might be a gem in the field but I don't think he comes close to Manny's offensive production. I like Tejada's dogged play, and his zest for the game, but I really don't want to lose Manny. I just don't.
                        Tejada's not even that much of a defensive upgrade over Renteria

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                        • #13
                          what about this 3 way then...

                          The Mets would get Manny Ramirez (and his whole contract).
                          The Rays would get Aaron Heilman and Anderson Hernandez.
                          The Red Sox would get Lastings Milledge, Danys Baez and Julio Lugo.

                          I do not want to get rid of Manny, but if we had to, this would be palatable i guess...thoughts?

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                          • #14
                            While Ortiz might be clutch, you don't put a man on base for Manny Rameriz. I don't know, I just don't agree to doing that myself in a close game. Regardless of Rameriz has done earlier in the game. If Rameriz had a horrible season the previous year, then I would consider doing that move.

                            Tejada's not even that much of a defensive upgrade over Renteria
                            Tejada an upgrade over nothing.

                            Though, I know what you mean. Tejada is not the greatest defensive player in the world as many people make him out to be. Granted, Alex Gonzalez is a better defensive shortstop than Tejada. But, if you're going to compare defense, you would compare Tejada average to above average defense to Manny's defense, which I call ''The Adventure of Manny Rameriz'' out in left field. Though, Rameriz has had a lot of assists, but that's due to playing in Fenway Park. Anyway, which player's defense would you prefer?

                            Boston Boxer, If we're going to get players from Tampa, it would be Gathright and Lugo. Baez would be going to Mets in such a deal. Mets won't part with Heilman, Milledge and take Rameriz's entire contract. I just don't see the Mets happen. If we're going to deal Manny, the best deal would be the current one on the table. We get Tejada, while also remove Rameriz from our division and better, remove him from our league.

                            Any deal the Red Sox might make to move Rameriz, I would prefer getting Tejada. While I'm completely high on Heilman, who can help us right now, and Milledge, who can't help us now. I want a player with more impact and can also serve as protection behide Ortiz if Manny left Boston.

                            Just so you know, Tejada could end up in Anaheim from what I heard lately. Tejada likely to be move oppose to Rameriz. If this deal fall a part, which I kinda see happen, then expect the Angels to make a deal to Tejada and bring him to Anaheim.

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