Red Sox history

[cbrderek]

I am looking for some history statisitics.

I want to see the complete series between the red sox and yankees. Who has won more of the meetings? I have looked everywhere and cant seem to find this stat.

Yankees fans think that its the yanks...but Red Sox fans think its the sox. I think it is pretty even. Anyone know the ACTUAL wins and losses?

Thanks!!!

[yellowdog]

cbrderek,
I found the following numbers at redsoxconnections.com

Red Sox vs. Yankees
Total games: 1882
Overall record: 845(Red Sox)-1037(Yankees)
Red Sox are 469-477 vs. the Yankees at home.
They are 276-560 vs. the Yankees on the road.

I am not sure if these figures are just regular season records or if playoff games are included. I hope this will help you.

[cbrderek]

Thanks yellowdog!! I will check out the site too!!!

[Chadwick]

To answer your question...
In 1,920 meetings, the Boston Red Sox have an 870-1050 (.453) lifetime record against the New York Yankees in the regular season.

Their post-season record against the Yankees is 1-4 when they lost the 1999 ALCS in five games.



Where and how did I find the information?
Here's how I got the information, if you're interested:
1. I went to
Baseball Almanac for the lifetime regular season record. They have it updated from 1901-2001; they're so busy, they hadn't added the 2002 numbers yet.
2. I did a search and found a log of the Red Sox 2002 game results, added their wins and losses against the Yankees and found their 2002 record to be 9-10.
3. I added the two together to arrive at the total.
4. The post-season record was found at Baseball Reference



Why the discrepancy between the numbers yellowdog found and the ones I found?
Apparently redsoxconnections only counts games between these teams when the Yankees were in New York City. You may not know this, but the Yankees were originally the Baltimore Orioles. When the AL started (in 1901), the Orioles were one of the two original franchises. After two years in Baltimore, they moved to New York (for the 1903 season) and renamed themselves the Highlanders (and, later, the Yankees.) The folks at redsoxconnections either overlooked this or discounted these two years, when Boston went 16-3 against the "Yankee" franchise; MLB counts the games towards the Yankees' total and so does Baseball Almanac because, despite the relocation, it was still the same franchise - same ownership, same roster, etc.



I thought that Boston-New York met more than once in the post-season?
You may be thinking of Bucky Dent's famous home run. I'll get to that. Here's a brief history of the American League's structure, first, however.

From 1901-1960, there were eight teams in the American League. The team with the best regular season record was the "pennant winner" and went automatically to the World Series.

From 1961-68 it was the same way, but with ten teams.

In 1969, both leagues went to a two-division format with six teams per division. From 1969 through today the Red Sox and Yankees have both played in the AL East. From 1969-1993 there was no wildcard so only the division winners went to the playoffs (directly to the ALCS). Boston and New York simply couldn't both reach the playoffs until baseball added a wildcard beginning in the 1994 season.

There was one exception, which did not occur for these two teams. In 1981, the Yankees and Red Sox might have met in the first "division series" which was put on when the players struck in the middle of the 1981 season. The Commissioner made a controversial ruling and decided that the winner of each division in the first half would play their counterpart from the second half, meaning that the first place team in the AL East when the players struck on June 12 would play the first place team in the AL East when the season ended at the end of September. (I don't know what they would have done if it had been the same team...in any case, all four divisions in baseball had different winners in the two halves, setting up a third round of playoffs for the first-time in history.) This was the first opportunity these two teams would have had to face each other. The Yankees finished first in the AL East in the first-half, but Boston failed to win the division in the second half, finishing 3rd behind the Brewers and Tigers.

1994 was the first year of the wildcard, but there wasn't one since the players went on strike again, this time cancelling the post-season for the first time in 90 years.

So the Sox and the Yanks have had 1995-2002 to face off in the post-season, then.

Boston won the division in 1995 and was the AL wildcard in 1999 and 2000. The Yankees won the wildcard in 1995 and the division in 1999 and 2000. In order for these two teams to meet, however, they both had to win their division series, which only happened one in three times.

Baseball's rules state that the team with the best record in its league hosts the wildcard in the Division Series unless both teams are in the same division, in which case the top team hosts the weakest record among the other two division winners.

The 1999 ALCS saw the Yankees dismantle the Sox in 5 games, the two team's only post-season meeting.



But what about Bucky Dent's home run? Wasn't that a playoff game?
No. In 1978, the Red Sox and the Yankees ended the season in a tie for first place, each sporting a 99-63 record. According to the rules, the two teams had to play a one-game "playoff" to decide the division winner. The loser would go home. That game was, technically, the 163rd game of the season and the stats counted as regular season stats. While it had a playoff atmosphere, it was not, technically speaking, a playoff game.

(This recently happened when the Mets and Reds tied for the wildcard at the end of the 1999 season, forcing a 163rd game to decide which of those teams went on to the post-season.)


I hope this information has been helpful. I tried to be complete and concise all it one stroke. Hope it comes in handy for you!

[Chadwick]

As long as we're talking about Red Sox history...I'd like to share a little more.

The so-called "Curse of the Bambino" should be re-named, appropriately "The Curse of Harry Frazee."

The Red Sox played in and won 5 of the first 15 World Series in baseball history. They were the American League's flagship franchise for its first twenty or twenty-five seasons. They also won the AL pennant in 1904 and, when the New York Giants declined to play the World Series, should - in the spirit of good sportsmanship - be considered the 1904 World Champions.

Babe Ruth, the brighest star on the 1918 World Champion Red Sox was sold to the New York Yankees the day after Christmas, 1919 for $100,000 plus a $300,000 loan.

In the 83 years since the worst trade in baseball history, Ruth the Yankees have replaced the Red Sox as the American League's greatest franchise.

Since letting Ruth go, the Sox have appeared in only four of 82 World Series and haven't won any of them. The Yankees, on the other hand, went to their first World Series in only Ruth's second year with his new team. While the Sox have gone 0-for-4 in the World Series since the deal, the Yankees have gone 26-for-38 in the World Series, winning nearly three times more World Championships than any team in baseball history.

In fact, since acquiring Ruth in the winter of 1919-20, the Yankees have won more World Series than all the other AL teams combined!

Why did Harry Frazee sell Ruth to the Yankees? Three reasons.

1. Frazee was first and foremost a producer of broadway shows, not a baseball fan.

2. Ruth wasn't the only player Frazee sold to the Yankees (or anyone else for that matter.)

3. The previous Red Sox owners had been doing it to make the occasional buck before Frazee bought the team. Where it was an occasional disappointment before when a player was sold, Frazee turned it into a regular "going out of business" sale.

Frazee bought the team in 1916. The Red Sox had just won their second consecutive World Series, against the Brooklyn Dodgers that year. From then until he finally sold the team mid-way through the 1923 season, he practically gave any player of real worth away - usually to the Yankees, who were always had loose cash around to acquire the right player.

Everett Scott, one of the league's best shortstops, was sent to the Yankees along with Wally Schang, who rivaled Ray Schalk as the best catcher in the game. Others that were shipped to New York City include practically ever starting pitcher who ever had a decent season. Hall of Famers Herb Pennock (Yankees) and Harry Hooper (White Sox) were sold or traded.

The 1918 Red Sox boasted the best pitching rotation of the deadball era. Their top four starters - Carl Mays, Ernie Shore, Sad Sam Jones and Joe Bush all went to the Yankees as did Babe Ruth who hit a major league record 29 home runs in his final season with Boston.

Dutch Leonard, another great pitcher of the time, was sent to Detroit. Larry Gardner, the leading hitter on the 1916 championship team (.308 batting average) was a third baseman; he was sent to the Yankees. So was Stuffy McInnis, one of the best first basemen of his time. Muddy Ruel (catcher) and George Burns (first base) were very good players in their day as well. Both were shipped out to other teams, mostly for cash.

Harry Frazee ought to be in the Hall of Fame. No man did more to build the Yankee dynasty than he did.

So next time you hear someone rant and rave about Jeffrey Loria, remind them that at least he didn't send Vladimir Guerrero, Carl Pavano, Jose Vidro and Javier Vasquez all to the same team. At least A.J. Burnett, Brad Penny, Derek Lee, Charles Johnson, Mike Lowell and Josh Beckett aren't all being traded or sold to the Mets.

Most of all...be grateful you're not a Red Sox fan.

[VTSoxFan]

I am a Red Sox Fan, and I'm at this moment wearing my Derek Lowe shirt... and though I may never have seen my team win a World Series, I have strength of character, because adversity builds character, and adversity is a long-time acquaintance of the Red Sox Nation. We've walked hand in hand down many a dark road together.

I agree with you, that it's not necessarily Ruth haunting the team, but Frazee, may he be roasting on a nice hot spit in the nether regions for what he did to the Sox! I've long thought that it might be any or all of the other players he sold off...if I were to believe in curses, that is.

You mentioned the $300,000 loan. Did you know that Frazee put up Fenway Park itself as security for that loan? So, in effect, the NYY owned Fenway, until Tom Yawkey bought it back (I think; I have to look this up to make sure).

[Chadwick]

I love Red Sox fans. Some of my best friends are Red Sox fans. Sometime I wonder what would make them stand out from other teams' fans, however, if it weren't for the so-prominent heartbreaks you've endured over the years.

I lay the blame, not just on Frazee, but on those he succeeded (the guys who sold, among others, Tris Speaker to the Indians) and the guys - yes, the Yawkeys - who followed.

The success or failure of a ballclub is directly attributable to its ownership/management team. The Yawkeys owned the club in one form or another from the early 1920s until the early 2000s. He may have been lovable to Red Sox fans and players, but a guy who was the top cat over a professional sports franchise for half a century - Tom Yawkey died in 1975 or 1976 - and only sees three first-place finishes during that time span has PROVEN he doesn't know how to win in that league. No disrespect to the dead, but he certainly didn't deserve induction to the Hall of Fame. I mean, what did he do that was so great? Are we going to elect every owner with five decades of tenure?

Whether Frazee or Yawkey or Harrington or now the John Henry/Larry Lucciano team....the Red Sox failures aren't the faults of Jim Rice, Ted Williams, Yaz, El Tiante, Bill Buckner, Roger Clemens or any of the other dozens of Hall of Famers and near-Hall of Famers who have graced beautiful Fenway Park. The blame lies on the heads of the teams' long line of pathetic owners and the poor job either they (or their employees) have done in the front office.

[cbrderek]

[QUOTE=VTSoxFan]I am a Red Sox Fan, and I'm at this moment wearing my Derek Lowe shirt... and though I may never have seen my team win a World Series, I have strength of character, because adversity builds character, and adversity is a long-time acquaintance of the Red Sox Nation. We've walked hand in hand down many a dark road together.[QUOTE]


I hope you find this post even though it is responding to a post 5 years old. I hope you were around to SEE your(our) team win it all. It may happen again this year! It looks like the staff we are building up can do the job. But only time will tell.

[Captain Cold Nose]

[QUOTE=cbrderek][QUOTE=VTSoxFan]I am a Red Sox Fan, and I'm at this moment wearing my Derek Lowe shirt... and though I may never have seen my team win a World Series, I have strength of character, because adversity builds character, and adversity is a long-time acquaintance of the Red Sox Nation. We've walked hand in hand down many a dark road together.

I hope you find this post even though it is responding to a post 5 years old. I hope you were around to SEE your(our) team win it all. It may happen again this year! It looks like the staff we are building up can do the job. But only time will tell.

Welcome back.

I can assure you she did. She's currently a co-moderator for the Red Sox forum on this thread and very active on these boards.
You should check that forum out.

[VTSoxFan]

I hope you find this post even though it is responding to a post 5 years old. I hope you were around to SEE your(our) team win it all. It may happen again this year! It looks like the staff we are building up can do the job. But only time will tell.

Welcome back! I did indeed see Our Beloved Sox win it all... the memory still brings a big grin to my face. Whatever else they win, nothing can come up to that indescribable happiness. "A ground ball stabbed by Foulke! He has it, he underhands to first..."

[hellborn]

Welcome back! I did indeed see Our Beloved Sox win it all... the memory still brings a big grin to my face. Whatever else they win, nothing can come up to that indescribable happiness. "A ground ball stabbed by Foulke! He has it, he underhands to first..."

For some reason, my heart just about stopped when I saw Foulke start to underhand the ball...I think that I pictured him releasing the ball late and flipping it into the stands behind 3rd base.
But, I knew from the previous BB writer's dinner that Mr. Foulke was a man of supreme cool and confidence, so I shouldn't have worried.

[EvanAparra]

[QUOTE=cbrderek][QUOTE=VTSoxFan]I am a Red Sox Fan, and I'm at this moment wearing my Derek Lowe shirt... and though I may never have seen my team win a World Series, I have strength of character, because adversity builds character, and adversity is a long-time acquaintance of the Red Sox Nation. We've walked hand in hand down many a dark road together.

I hope you find this post even though it is responding to a post 5 years old. I hope you were around to SEE your(our) team win it all. It may happen again this year! It looks like the staff we are building up can do the job. But only time will tell.

Wow, he posts twice in 2002 and remembers those posts and replies to Annie 5 years later. I love Sox fans.

[TonyK]

"A ground ball stabbed by Foulke! He has it, he underhands to first..."

The ball goes through Mientkiewicz's legs and rolls all the way down the right field line! Renteria races around the bases to score before the Sox can retrieve the ball.

St. Louis goes on to win four straight games in the greatest comeback in World Series history!!

[VTSoxFan]

"A ground ball stabbed by Foulke! He has it, he underhands to first..."

The ball goes through Mientkiewicz's legs and rolls all the way down the right field line! Renteria races around the bases to score before the Sox can retrieve the ball.

St. Louis goes on to win four straight games in the greatest comeback in World Series history!!

Hey, what alternate universe are you posting from?

[hellborn]

I am a Red Sox Fan, and I'm at this moment wearing my Derek Lowe shirt...

Still have that Lowe shirt, Annie??
I still wear my Mark Hellborn, er, Bellhorn, shirts with great pride...and my Foulke shirt, too. Not to mention El Guapo...