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  • Epstein Trade Analysis

    Baseball Views from the North has released another trade analysis using sabrmetric statistics. This time it’s analyzing Theo Epstein’s moves from his first trade to the moment he quit and left the Red Sox offices in a gorilla suit.
    Last edited by danjulien; 12-30-2006, 06:52 AM.
    Baseball Views from the North
    http://bvtn.blogspot.com

  • #2
    sounds interesting, do you have a link?
    Gelatin Fernandalism

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    • #3
      The worst trade he's ever made was Meredith and Bard for Mirabelli. Absolutely terrible. I hope it's the worst he will ever make too. lol.

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      • #4
        Was Theo at the helm when Freddy Sanchez and Mike Gonzalez were traded to the Pirates for Jeff Suppan and Brandon Lyon?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DoubleX
          Was Theo at the helm when Freddy Sanchez and Mike Gonzalez were traded to the Pirates for Jeff Suppan and Brandon Lyon?
          Yes, he was. WE should, however, be lucky it was not Duquette making those deals. Danny Boy would have thrown in half the rosters of Pawtucket and Portland in those deals...
          sigpicMan, do I *HATE* the Yankees!!!!!!

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          • #6
            Here's a link, everyone. I believe it was edited out by mistake:

            http://danjulien.atspace.com/theo.htm
            "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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            • #7
              Sometimes I forget to put in links lol...
              I broke down the analysis further here

              The interesting thing is how badly Theo's done in "baseball deals" where players traded were simliar major league players...while picking up a chunk of salary, he has given up about 15 wins.
              Baseball Views from the North
              http://bvtn.blogspot.com

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              • #8
                Originally posted by danjulien
                Sometimes I forget to put in links lol...
                I broke down the analysis further here

                The interesting thing is how badly Theo's done in "baseball deals" where players traded were simliar major league players...while picking up a chunk of salary, he has given up about 15 wins.
                Who, in your estimation, has done well in "baseball deals?"

                Or who has gained wins because of his deals as a whole?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by EvanAparra
                  Who, in your estimation, has done well in "baseball deals?"

                  Or who has gained wins because of his deals as a whole?
                  Well I guess the guy who has done well is the guy who makes more good trades than bad ones. Prospects are exactly that prospects, they might be something, everyone makes bad deals.
                  "he probably used some performance enhancing drugs so he could do a better job on his report...i hear they make you gain weight" - Dr. Zizmor

                  "I thought it was interesting and yes a conversation piece. Next time I post a similar story I will close with the question "So, do you think either of them have used steroids?" so that I can make the topic truly relevant to discussions about today's game." - Eric Davis

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqul1GyK7-g

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DoubleX
                    Was Theo at the helm when Freddy Sanchez and Mike Gonzalez were traded to the Pirates for Jeff Suppan and Brandon Lyon?
                    Mike Gonzalez was drafted by the Pirates.

                    Still, he dealt Sanchez for Suppan and Sauerbeck, we need them at the time, but they simply did not perform. Of course, Sanchez became the batting champion this past season and likely to get better. Suppan and Sauerbeck ended up leaving. Sauerbeck still a very average to medicore relief pitcher. Suppan been quite consistent since joining St. Louis and had a great 2005 postseason.

                    Lyon was involved in the Schilling deal. He was just a waiver pick up by Boston.

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                    • #11
                      Brandon Lyon was first traded to Pittsburgh for either Suppan or Sauerbeck -- I can't remember which -- but there were issues about his health and I think the Pirates were suspicious that Theo had traded a pitcher he knew wasn't healthy. In order to patch things up, Theo was forced to trade them our top prospect -- Sanchez. We got Lyon back, but he didn't do much the rest of that season.

                      I remember people at the time saying "We got Suppan AND Saurerbeck for only Sanchez!" But considering that those two pitchers did almost nothing for us during their short stays here, and considering what a rising star Sanchez is... I don't think it was a good deal, in the long run.

                      BTW, how is Freddy's fielding? We all know about his batting title, but how's his defense?

                      Did Theo know that Lyon's shoulder was iffy when he made the first trade? Only he knows. If he did know... that's dirty dealing.
                      --Annie
                      Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
                      Remember Yellowdog
                      ABNY

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                      • #12
                        The "baseball deals" are listed on the page but are the Roberts/Payton deal (where Roberts wanted to start, but shoulda gotten a better return), the Payton/Bradford, the Nomar trade, the Giambi trade and the Hillenbrand trade...
                        Baseball Views from the North
                        http://bvtn.blogspot.com

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                          Brandon Lyon was first traded to Pittsburgh for either Suppan or Sauerbeck -- I can't remember which -- but there were issues about his health and I think the Pirates were suspicious that Theo had traded a pitcher he knew wasn't healthy. In order to patch things up, Theo was forced to trade them our top prospect -- Sanchez. We got Lyon back, but he didn't do much the rest of that season.

                          I remember people at the time saying "We got Suppan AND Saurerbeck for only Sanchez!" But considering that those two pitchers did almost nothing for us during their short stays here, and considering what a rising star Sanchez is... I don't think it was a good deal, in the long run.

                          BTW, how is Freddy's fielding? We all know about his batting title, but how's his defense?

                          Did Theo know that Lyon's shoulder was iffy when he made the first trade? Only he knows. If he did know... that's dirty dealing.
                          First Lyon Trade: July 22, 2003: Lyon and Anastacio Martinez to the Pirates for Mike Gonzalez and Sauerbeck.

                          July 31, 2003: Traded by Pirates with Martinez and Jeff Suppan to the Boston Red Sox for Gonzalez, Freddy Sanchez, and cash.

                          Martinez never did live up to his promise..and I had seen him pitch for the SaraSox.
                          sigpicMan, do I *HATE* the Yankees!!!!!!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by danjulien
                            The "baseball deals" are listed on the page but are the Roberts/Payton deal (where Roberts wanted to start, but shoulda gotten a better return), the Payton/Bradford, the Nomar trade, the Giambi trade and the Hillenbrand trade...
                            Pauley, who we got from the Padres for Roberts, showed some promise. I'd say we got a good return. I wouldn't be surprised if teams want him in trades...
                            sigpicMan, do I *HATE* the Yankees!!!!!!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SDL
                              First Lyon Trade: July 22, 2003: Lyon and Anastacio Martinez to the Pirates for Mike Gonzalez and Sauerbeck.

                              July 31, 2003: Traded by Pirates with Martinez and Jeff Suppan to the Boston Red Sox for Gonzalez, Freddy Sanchez, and cash.

                              Martinez never did live up to his promise..and I had seen him pitch for the SaraSox.
                              You are right. I was wrong earlier

                              Gonzalez was in the Boston system for 8 days, even pitched for PawSox a couple of times, before being shipped back to Pittsburgh.

                              The first trade was a steal, then the second trade came and we all know what happen after that.

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