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Running out of time - Jim Rice (HoF ballot)

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  • Running out of time - Jim Rice (HoF ballot)

    Jim Rice is running out of time on the Hall of Fame ballot. I hate to say this, but I think he may not make it to the Hall of Fame. Despite on his accomplishments, he is being overlooked. He probably had a year or two left in him, and I bet if he played in 1990 or 1991, he would've been a HoF'er.

    If he was injured and forced him into retirement, then I think that was why he retired at age 36. Number 14 needs your help to become a Hall of Famer, despite he punched his manager.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Solair Wright
    Jim Rice is running out of time on the Hall of Fame ballot. I hate to say this, but I think he may not make it to the Hall of Fame. Despite on his accomplishments, he is being overlooked. He probably had a year or two left in him, and I bet if he played in 1990 or 1991, he would've been a HoF'er.

    If he was injured and forced him into retirement, then I think that was why he retired at age 36. Number 14 needs your help to become a Hall of Famer, despite he punched his manager.
    He needs our help? What can we do for him?

    He's borderline anyway. I'd probably say no.

    Comment


    • #3
      He's relatively close (64.80% last year), he has three years on the ballot, and with relatively weak classes the next two years after this year, I think he has a pretty good shot. Voters seem to get extra sentimental as a player is about to reach the 15 year cutoff, and that boost might be enough to get Rice over the hump.

      Personally, I wouldn't put him in and I like both Dwight Evans and Fred Lynn more, but I wouldn't really care if he got in, especially compared to some statheads that will argue to no end that he doesn't deserve it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Echoing a bit of what DoubleX brings up; Dewey Evans is one of the truly underrated pleyers of his era. While Rice deserves mention for the HOF, just missing is probably a fitting end. Dewey probably doesnt deserve entrance but he does in fact deserve to have his name talked about. Maybe his numbers don't tell much of a story but I'd take him on my team any day, solid ballplayer, good dude.

        After this upcoming big class, it'll be interesting to see which guys bubble up to the surface.
        2008

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sharrock
          Echoing a bit of what DoubleX brings up; Dewey Evans is one of the truly underrated pleyers of his era. While Rice deserves mention for the HOF, just missing is probably a fitting end. Dewey probably doesnt deserve entrance but he does in fact deserve to have his name talked about. Maybe his numbers don't tell much of a story but I'd take him on my team any day, solid ballplayer, good dude.

          After this upcoming big class, it'll be interesting to see which guys bubble up to the surface.
          Actually, Evans's numbers tell quite an impressive story. While a different kind of hitter from Rice, he maintained a comparable offensive level, but with 1000 more plate appearances, 65 more win shares. When his name is talked about, it's mostly by the same statheads who won't shut up about Jim Rice.
          Last edited by Sliding Billy; 01-04-2007, 05:51 AM.
          The ball once struck off,
          Away flies the boy
          To the next destin'd post,
          And then home with joy.
          --Anonymous, 1744

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          • #6
            I'm not one of those statheads. I am just seeing people's opinions about the slugger, and I have a feeling that he retired a year or two early, probably nullifying his HoF chances effectively. He grounded into double plays a lot, again, it's not his fault. Dewey, Billy Buck and Wade weren't exactly the fastest players.

            Was it his fault he grounded into 36 double plays in the 1984 season? No. Some of his teammates on base weren't fast, and he hit the ball like a sledgehammer, causing an easy double play.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Solair Wright
              Was it his fault he grounded into 36 double plays in the 1984 season? No. Some of his teammates on base weren't fast, and he hit the ball like a sledgehammer, causing an easy double play.
              That's a fair observation. Like the RBI disdained by nattering statheads, the DP is highly dependent on position in the batting order and performance of teammates. In evaluating defensive double plays, the conventional wisdom is to take into account number of double play opportunities, ground-ball vs fly-ball and left vs right-handed pitching staffs and so on. I've never heard of that being done in evaluating batters' GIDP (which doesn't mean it isn't done).

              Still, when I picture a GIDP, I see the batter trying to pull a curve on--or beyond--the outside corner. It's possible that if Rice had been more selective, he might have had fewer GIDP's as well as more walks. Or possibly not.
              The ball once struck off,
              Away flies the boy
              To the next destin'd post,
              And then home with joy.
              --Anonymous, 1744

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Solair Wright
                Was it his fault he grounded into 36 double plays in the 1984 season?
                Matter of fact it was his fault, unless you want to blame his teammates for being on base when he hit those "sledgehamers" to SS.

                The problem with discussing Rice is the arguments fall along to lines. The fan who says, "I know what I saw and I don't care what you say" and the rebuttal, "I don't care what you thought you saw the evaluation of Rice's production leaves him wanting".

                BTW, what part of Rice's last season makes you think he could have paid another minute let alone another two season? He wasn't injured, he was through. It happens.
                Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

                Comment


                • #9
                  Like I said earlier, I wouldn't be too upset if Rice got into the Hall. The Hall celebrates more than just statistics, and Rice was considered a major force in the game for about a decade, so that says something to me. However, what really bugs me about Rice's candidacy is him home/away splits. Fenway really seemed to help him. For his career, he had a very nice .920 OPS at home, but a less than impressive .789 OPS on the road. That's a huge difference, and it leaves me wondering why couldn't he hit nearly as well on the road as he did at home? Fred Lynn had similar issues. So did Wade Boggs while with the Red Sox. Boggs, however, like a true great hitter, had the ability of adapting to his home ballpark. He was great at Fenway, he was great at Yankee Stadium, he was great at Tropicana Field. Those are very, very different styles of ballpark. We don't know if Rice could have adjusted similarly because he never played for another team.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    He was pretty much toast in 1989, I doubt he had two more seviceable years.

                    He suffers like quite a few other 80's players as the numbers aren't in the stratosphere, but they had great careers.

                    Here's hoping Gossage, Rice, Blyleven, and Morris get in at some point.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Damn - Jim Rice didn't make it
                      Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr only ones

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mef
                        Damn - Jim Rice didn't make it
                        Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr only ones
                        I haven't seen vote totals yet, but MLB.com reported that he lost some ground from last year.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DoubleX
                          I haven't seen vote totals yet, but MLB.com reported that he lost some ground from last year.

                          Rice received 63.5% of the votes, down from 64.8% last year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Solair Wright
                            I'm not one of those statheads. I am just seeing people's opinions about the slugger, and I have a feeling that he retired a year or two early, probably nullifying his HoF chances effectively. He grounded into double plays a lot, again, it's not his fault. Dewey, Billy Buck and Wade weren't exactly the fastest players.

                            Was it his fault he grounded into 36 double plays in the 1984 season? No. Some of his teammates on base weren't fast, and he hit the ball like a sledgehammer, causing an easy double play.
                            This is something I've thought about alot recently, in regards to all the statheads putting down Rice because of his double plays: If RBI are dependant on context, which they are, and should be taken with a grain of salt, which they should be, then the same should go for double plays. Most statheads would argue that if a guy hits a double with no one on, he deserves the same amount of credit as if he had hit it with one person on. He did the same thing, it's just that the context was different, and something he could not control. The same thing with a double play, if you ground out, you have done the same thing regardless of whether their is a runner on base or not. Double plays, just like RBI, are dependant on context.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KCGHOST
                              Matter of fact it was his fault, unless you want to blame his teammates for being on base when he hit those "sledgehamers" to SS.

                              The problem with discussing Rice is the arguments fall along to lines. The fan who says, "I know what I saw and I don't care what you say" and the rebuttal, "I don't care what you thought you saw the evaluation of Rice's production leaves him wanting".

                              BTW, what part of Rice's last season makes you think he could have paid another minute let alone another two season? He wasn't injured, he was through. It happens.
                              If he is at fault extra for a groundout with runners on, then he should be given extra credit for a basehit with runners on. This is the problem with many of the statheads who put Rice down, they want it both ways. On the one side they want to say that players should not be given much credit for RBI, but on the other side they should be reamed for a double play. Their is no logical defense for this, you either take away from Rice for his dp's but give him huge credit for his rbi, or you do neither. It's really pretty simple.

                              Many people do see him as worthy based on his numbers, it's not just a "what I saw argument." But what we saw was pretty awesome. I always thought it was too bad he never went to the Brewers, as that would have given us a chance to see what he could somewhere else. Boggs got that chance, and produced with it.

                              Rice hurt his wrist in 1980 and was really never the same after that. He was still a terrific hitter, but not the monster he was from 77-79. He really was done by 1987, he was a mediocre hitter than and in 88. By 1989 he was completely finished.

                              I think there is another issue with Rice and the voters, namely the ones who were old enough to see him in 77-79 wanted more. Around that period Rice looked like a guy who might hit 600 homeruns. He had not even entered his prime, but he hit .320 with 40 homeruns every year. The fact that he did'nt leaves a sense of underachievement. In one sense those guys should be in his corner, as they saw him when he was truly awesome. But finishing the way he did after that start, really leaves a what should have been feeling.

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