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  • #61
    Originally posted by DoubleX
    Actually, most of the Yankees biggest heroes in the past decade were homegrown:

    - Derek Jeter
    - Bernie Williams
    - Jorge Posada
    - Mariano Rivera
    - Andy Pettitte

    Plus, during the WS Winning years, the Yankees had a number of homegrown role players like Ramiro Mendoza, Shane Spencer, Ricky Ledee, Jim Leyritz, Brian Boehringer, then a little later Alfonso Soriano and Nick Johnson. It's not a real abundance of homegrown talent, but it's more than the Sox have had in recent years, especially when you're talking about "homegrown heroes" as you are. Basically, all of the Sox heroes not named Trot Nixon came from other systems (or in the case of Schilling, who was a Red Sox prospect 20 years ago, spent 16 years playing on other teams before he first played for the Red Sox).

    The Yankees have also in the last two years have been placing a much greater emphasis on the farm system - in that time, Cashman has taken one of the worst farm systems in the league, and turned it into one of the 5-10 best (I was actually in disbelief of this until people in the Yankees forum pointing me towards all of these expert rankings of farm systems in which the Yankees are firmly in the top 10), which is now very deep, especially with pitching talent. That being said, the Sox system is also fairly deep at the moment too, especially in pitching.

    Holy Mazzone.
    Can you let a guy vent?! h
    "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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    • #62
      In my opinion, Trot was the heart and soul...... One of those guys you stick with thru good and bad seasons, if for no other reason than the clubhouse influence and the example he sets for the players and the kids, too... I'll miss ya Trot.....

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      • #63
        Originally posted by DoubleX
        I also think the Sox have followed the pattern of the Yankees in the last decade. First, despite not having much grown talent, I think the Sox built the 2004 team in much the same way the Yankees of '97-'01 were built - through shrewd trades that maximized the value of certain prospects, and through good decisions in free agency that did not get gluttonness with targeting superstars (Manny was the only one for the Sox, and the Yankees didn't really become gluttonness in free agency until 2001). The Yankees then went crazy, overspending on big names and gutting the farm system for overpriced and declining veterans. I think the Sox are heading down this path now, especially if the Todd Helton deal goes through.
        Do you have any evidence for this, or is this just wishful thinking on your part?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by winningtheweapon
          Do you have any evidence for this, or is this just wishful thinking on your part?
          Evidence for what? The construction of the Yankees '96-'01 teams and the construction of the Sox '04 team are topics that I think I've beat to death around here. So if you want to dig around and see my "evidence" from previous posts, be my guest. I don't feel like rehashing very well covered ground again right now.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by DoubleX
            Evidence for what? The construction of the Yankees '96-'01 teams and the construction of the Sox '04 team are topics that I think I've beat to death around here. So if you want to dig around and see my "evidence" from previous posts, be my guest. I don't feel like rehashing very well covered ground again right now.
            Evidence for this.....

            The Yankees then went crazy, overspending on big names and gutting the farm system for overpriced and declining veterans. I think the Sox are heading down this path now, especially if the Todd Helton deal goes through.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by winningtheweapon
              Evidence for this.....
              Like I said, you're free to dig up old posts - I guarantee you'll find plenty from me speaking to this very subject, perhaps even in this thread (not sure though, I haven't looked). But I don't feel like going over this ground again because it's been covered a number of times before. My apologies for that.

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              • #67
                The Yankees then went crazy, overspending on big names and gutting the farm system for overpriced and declining veterans. I think the Sox are heading down this path now, especially if the Todd Helton deal goes through.
                Tons of evidence for this - it was essentially the Yankees philosophy from 2000 until last year, when Brian Cashman began making some decent deals.

                I wouldn't say that the Sox are heading down that path yet - you can make a great argument for it (just think about all the big Sox signings from the past few yerars). At the least, the Sox probably won't reach the magnitude of crazy spending as the Yankees did. I can't see the Sox trading for Randy Johnson anytime soon.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Johnny Evers
                  Tons of evidence for this - it was essentially the Yankees philosophy from 2000 until last year, when Brian Cashman began making some decent deals.

                  I wouldn't say that the Sox are heading down that path yet - you can make a great argument for it (just think about all the big Sox signings from the past few yerars). At the least, the Sox probably won't reach the magnitude of crazy spending as the Yankees did. I can't see the Sox trading for Randy Johnson anytime soon.
                  The argument seems clutching though. I have tons of contrary evidence: 60% of the starting rotation is 26 years old, Jacoby, Clay, Masterson, Cox, Bard etc. are all still in the Red Sox farm system, Pedroia who's 23 is starting at 2nd base this year etc.

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                  • #69
                    Most of the Sox guys were FA's though. Not trades, and the few that were trades the deals were at least mediocre. Manny, Ortiz, Drew, Lugo, etc were all FA signings, and guys like Papelbon, Lester, Youkilis, Pedroia, Trot (obviously a while ago), etc were all farm guys. Really the only trades was the Schilling trade, which ended up being pretty good, Beckett Lowell and Mota, which may be ok. We gave up alot, but it depends on how good Beckett becomes, Crisp, which when we trade Renteria (who wanted out anyways) we got Marte, and trade Mota from the florida deal, and threw in Shoppach, but we got Crisp and Bard in return. Mirabelli for Loretta was a steal, obviously the worst deal was Bard and Meredith for Mirabelli, but for the most part we haven't depleated our far much. Even Donnelly for Seibel is a good deal. The Sox believed that Seibel had peaked, and wouldn't get any better. The Sox haven't really used that much of the farm.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Jager
                      Most of the Sox guys were FA's though. Not trades, and the few that were trades the deals were at least mediocre. Manny, Ortiz, Drew, Lugo, etc were all FA signings, and guys like Papelbon, Lester, Youkilis, Pedroia, Trot (obviously a while ago), etc were all farm guys. Really the only trades was the Schilling trade, which ended up being pretty good, Beckett Lowell and Mota, which may be ok. We gave up alot, but it depends on how good Beckett becomes, Crisp, which when we trade Renteria (who wanted out anyways) we got Marte, and trade Mota from the florida deal, and threw in Shoppach, but we got Crisp and Bard in return. Mirabelli for Loretta was a steal, obviously the worst deal was Bard and Meredith for Mirabelli, but for the most part we haven't depleated our far much. Even Donnelly for Seibel is a good deal. The Sox believed that Seibel had peaked, and wouldn't get any better. The Sox haven't really used that much of the farm.
                      Good post.

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                      • #71
                        :gt :gt :gt :gt

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