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Were Theo's moves in 2006 a stopgap or were they out to win?

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  • Were Theo's moves in 2006 a stopgap or were they out to win?

    Since DogDaze compelled me to start a thread like this, I'd like everyone to chime in on whether they thought Theo's rationale behind transactions throughout the 2006 season were more of a stopgap or more of a go out there and win mentality.
    15
    Stopgap
    60.00%
    9
    Compete in the postseason
    40.00%
    6

  • #2
    Ehh, I think he knew that his chances at the post season were far fetched after the deadline. I mean the White Sox won ninety games yet didn't make the playoffs. I don't think they were "stopgap" nor do I think he "mailed it in" but he is overrated as a GM...maybe not him but the Red Sox front office made some god awful moves last season. I already gave an analogy of what the Bard/Meridith for Miribelli trade was like.


    I think his team may have just died on him. Ortiz was hurt towards the end of the season, Manny stopped playing, Varitek was hurt (I think that was overblown though),Papelbon was hurt, Beckett gave up 36 HRs, none of those are Epstein's fault.
    "he probably used some performance enhancing drugs so he could do a better job on his report...i hear they make you gain weight" - Dr. Zizmor

    "I thought it was interesting and yes a conversation piece. Next time I post a similar story I will close with the question "So, do you think either of them have used steroids?" so that I can make the topic truly relevant to discussions about today's game." - Eric Davis

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqul1GyK7-g

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ChrisLDuncan
      Ehh, I think he knew that his chances at the post season were far fetched after the deadline. I mean the White Sox won ninety games yet didn't make the playoffs. I don't think they were "stopgap" nor do I think he "mailed it in" but he is overrated as a GM...maybe not him but the Red Sox front office made some god awful moves last season. I already gave an analogy of what the Bard/Meridith for Miribelli trade was like.


      I think his team may have just died on him. Ortiz was hurt towards the end of the season, Manny stopped playing, Varitek was hurt (I think that was overblown though),Papelbon was hurt, Beckett gave up 36 HRs, none of those are Epstein's fault.
      How do you think Theo is overrated as a GM?

      Comment


      • #4
        Theo himself said that the Bard/Meredith-Mirabelli trade was one made in desperation, and that he regretted it. I don't know if he regretted getting Mirabelli (I mostly doubt that) or giving up so much to get him (more likely).

        I still think that the Arroyo trade was not as fully thought-out as it might have been, and indicative of a unhappy lack of foresight. Knowing the fragility/iffiness of the starting rotation (Shilling's age/ankle, Wells's age/back, elbow, weight, everything, Wake's mercurial knuckleball, DiNardo's general ineffectiveness, etc.), it seemed to me at the time a really risky thing to do, and although Arroyo wasn't brilliant after his initial introduction to the National League, he was better than the pile of pitchers we had on the DL. I just don't think there's any such thing as too much pitching. Wily Mo certainly has potential -- but is he going to get a chance to develop it as a bench player?

        Chris, I'm curious -- in what way do you think Varitek's injury was overblown? I'm assuming you mean that losing him for six weeks didn't have that deleterious an effect on the performance of the team as a whole, because the team was sliding before he went down, but I just want to be clear. I don't think he was malingering. (Incidentally, Tek was hurting for most of the year -- remember the pulled glute early on? I think the injuries sort of cascaded from that and culminated in his knee problem. I'm praying that last year was an abberation and he'll return to form.)
        --Annie
        Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
        Remember Yellowdog
        ABNY

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by VTSoxFan
          Theo himself said that the Bard/Meredith-Mirabelli trade was one made in desperation, and that he regretted it. I don't know if he regretted getting Mirabelli (I mostly doubt that) or giving up so much to get him (more likely).

          I still think that the Arroyo trade was not as fully thought-out as it might have been, and indicative of a unhappy lack of foresight. Knowing the fragility/iffiness of the starting rotation (Shilling's age/ankle, Wells's age/back, elbow, weight, everything, Wake's mercurial knuckleball, DiNardo's general ineffectiveness, etc.), it seemed to me at the time a really risky thing to do, and although Arroyo wasn't brilliant after his initial introduction to the National League, he was better than the pile of pitchers we had on the DL. I just don't think there's any such thing as too much pitching. Wily Mo certainly has potential -- but is he going to get a chance to develop it as a bench player?
          If Arroyo was strictly a bullpen guy then he would be decent. However, I liked the trade considering Pena has tremendous potential to turn into a power bat in this lineup, but he needs the plate appearances to do so.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by winningtheweapon
            If Arroyo was strictly a bullpen guy then he would be decent. However, I liked the trade considering Pena has tremendous potential to turn into a power bat in this lineup, but he needs the plate appearances to do so.
            Precisely -- but he's going to be a bench guy again this year. Last year we needed pitching desperately -- starting, relieving, everything except a closer -- and to my eyes, at least, that need was apparent before the season started.
            --Annie
            Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
            Remember Yellowdog
            ABNY

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by winningtheweapon
              If Arroyo was strictly a bullpen guy then he would be decent. However, I liked the trade considering Pena has tremendous potential to turn into a power bat in this lineup, but he needs the plate appearances to do so.
              Pena is actually a bright spot of losing Arroyo. He's still young and has more spot to improve.

              The problem is that he has worse outfield defense than Soriano.
              What Igawa does for fun:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7KzVSA7eBY

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by winningtheweapon
                How do you think Theo is overrated as a GM?

                ESPN.com had him as a top five GM, anyone who made the Miribelli trade probably isn't even top ten.
                "he probably used some performance enhancing drugs so he could do a better job on his report...i hear they make you gain weight" - Dr. Zizmor

                "I thought it was interesting and yes a conversation piece. Next time I post a similar story I will close with the question "So, do you think either of them have used steroids?" so that I can make the topic truly relevant to discussions about today's game." - Eric Davis

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqul1GyK7-g

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                  Precisely -- but he's going to be a bench guy again this year. Last year we needed pitching desperately -- starting, relieving, everything except a closer -- and to my eyes, at least, that need was apparent before the season started.
                  I just found it annoying how everyone was nagging about this trade when no one thought much of Arroyo the previous season, and yet there isn't enough of a sample size to tell us if this trade worked out in the Sox or Reds favor.

                  "Arroyo hit a home run!" That's great, so did Josh Beckett, and pitchers can't hit home runs when they pitch in the American League anyways. Vexing material like that is a nuisance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ChrisLDuncan
                    ESPN.com had him as a top five GM, anyone who made the Miribelli trade probably isn't even top ten.
                    The Mirabelli trade was only for Wakefield's sake, otherwise you wouldn't have seen Mirabelli return.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                      Chris, I'm curious -- in what way do you think Varitek's injury was overblown? I'm assuming you mean that losing him for six weeks didn't have that deleterious an effect on the performance of the team as a whole, because the team was sliding before he went down, but I just want to be clear. I don't think he was malingering. (Incidentally, Tek was hurting for most of the year -- remember the pulled glute early on? I think the injuries sort of cascaded from that and culminated in his knee problem. I'm praying that last year was an abberation and he'll return to form.)

                      I don't think his injury is the sole reason why Boston was in third place. I think that added fuel to the fire, but I think they were overrated as a team even when he was healthy. People say that Varitek makes the players around him better, and talk about him like he's Steve Nash or something.

                      When Varitek got hurt here were his stats

                      Varitek's .719 OPS is 2nd worst among qualified catchers in the AL.
                      Varitek has thrown out the 2nd lowest percentage of basestealers in the AL (25%).

                      One could make the case that Jason Varitek is the worst starting catcher in the American League. So I think that was overblown.
                      "he probably used some performance enhancing drugs so he could do a better job on his report...i hear they make you gain weight" - Dr. Zizmor

                      "I thought it was interesting and yes a conversation piece. Next time I post a similar story I will close with the question "So, do you think either of them have used steroids?" so that I can make the topic truly relevant to discussions about today's game." - Eric Davis

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqul1GyK7-g

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ChrisLDuncan
                        I don't think his injury is the sole reason why Boston was in third place. I think that added fuel to the fire, but I think they were overrated as a team even when he was healthy. People say that Varitek makes the players around him better, and talk about him like he's Steve Nash or something.

                        When Varitek got hurt here were his stats

                        Varitek's .719 OPS is 2nd worst among qualified catchers in the AL.
                        Varitek has thrown out the 2nd lowest percentage of basestealers in the AL (25%).

                        One could make the case that Jason Varitek is the worst starting catcher in the American League. So I think that was overblown.
                        I agree that Varitek is overrated as a catcher.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think the Sox were very much going to win last year - as Westlake said in the Yankees forum, you don't commit 120+ million if you're not going for it all, they just didn't go about it well. The team went with a number of high risk/high reward players, and last year was a great illustration in that dichotomy. The team played very well in the first half - Schilling and Beckett were going strong, Papelbon was a sensation, Youkilis, Lowell, Nixon, and Loretta were hitting very well in addition to Ramirez and Ortiz; but in the second half we saw the risks manifest and the team struggled.

                          I hate to toot my own horn (ok, no I don't ), but I think I assessed the Sox almost perfectly prior to last season - I need to dig up that thread, because I don't think I could ever get that lucky again. Though, if I'm as right this year as I was last year, things could be very good for the Sox. I think they have a stronger team this year, and while they do have a number of risk/reward positions again, I think the potential rewards are higher with the risks being lower.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Since I inspired winningtheweapon to start this thread, I'll add my 2 cents.

                            It appears to me that the Sox were in a year of transition for 2006, thats not to say they didn't want to win, but based on some of their moves, it doesn't look to me like they were going all out. Therefore I voted stopgap.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DoubleX
                              I think the Sox were very much going to win last year - as Westlake said in the Yankees forum, you don't commit 120+ million if you're not going for it all, they just didn't go about it well. The team went with a number of high risk/high reward players, and last year was a great illustration in that dichotomy. The team played very well in the first half - Schilling and Beckett were going strong, Papelbon was a sensation, Youkilis, Lowell, Nixon, and Loretta were hitting very well in addition to Ramirez and Ortiz; but in the second half we saw the risks manifest and the team struggled.

                              I hate to toot my own horn (ok, no I don't ), but I think I assessed the Sox almost perfectly prior to last season - I need to dig up that thread, because I don't think I could ever get that lucky again. Though, if I'm as right this year as I was last year, things could be very good for the Sox. I think they have a stronger team this year, and while they do have a number of risk/reward positions again, I think the potential rewards are higher with the risks being lower.
                              The payroll was so high because of Manny's contract for starters. Remove him off the books and last years team is around 100 million, maybe a little bit less. Did they sign any of last year's additions to high priced contracts? No, they were one year deals. That has stopgap written all over it.

                              Comment

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