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  • #46
    Originally posted by winningtheweapon
    Also, if you read my previous posts, I said whether the Yankees trail along this course with Boston or not is still pending.
    How's it pending? The blog made it seem like the Red Sox adopted a course before the Yankees, but the team's, if anything, seemed to adopt it contemporaneously. And how you be so certain the Sox will follow this course and the Yankees will not? The Sox have traded prospects for veterans in the past year or two, while the Yankees have done the opposite and traded veterans for prospects. So I don't see how you can say with certainty the Sox are on some course, but then are unsure with the Yankees, when, if anything, the Sox seem to be more uncertain. But in both cases, it's moot, because we're so early in the process and so little has been done anyway in the grand scheme of things, that it's silly, IMO, to say that there is some firm blueprint that either team will be sticking to for years.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by DoubleX
      How's it pending? The blog made it seem like the Red Sox adopted a course before the Yankees, but the team's, if anything, seemed to adopt it contemporaneously. And how you be so certain the Sox will follow this course and the Yankees will not? The Sox have traded prospects for veterans in the past year or two, while the Yankees have done the opposite and traded veterans for prospects. So I don't see how you can say with certainty the Sox are on some course, but then are unsure with the Yankees, when, if anything, the Sox seem to be more uncertain. But in both cases, it's moot, because we're so early in the process and so little has been done anyway in the grand scheme of things, that it's silly, IMO, to say that there is some firm blueprint that either team will be sticking to for years.
      That's why I said in terms of depth, the Sox have the distinct advantage. Which is why they can afford to trade off a few prospects to plug in a few holes on the big club without sacrificing the entire future of the ballclub. Look at the ratio of kept prospects compared to traded prospects. The kept prospects overwhelm the traded by a significant amount. Also, the Red Sox haven't necessairly traded away prospects for veterans the entire time. For example, the Red Sox traded away David Wells for George Kottaras.

      Also, I know with almost absolute certainty that this plan will stick in Boston because of how headstrong Theo has been about trading away the "untouchables". And unless something drastic happens where this movement makes them a 4th place team, I don't see a major about-face occuring as long as Theo is in office.

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      • #48
        If you look at quite a few of the trades though, we have traded prospects for YOUNG players. We traded for Beckett, who's only 25, and we traded for Crisp, who is also still young. We didn't trade for over the hill guys for the most part. There have definetely been some, but many were for young players that have proven what they are capable of.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Jager
          If you look at quite a few of the trades though, we have traded prospects for YOUNG players. We traded for Beckett, who's only 25, and we traded for Crisp, who is also still young. We didn't trade for over the hill guys for the most part. There have definetely been some, but many were for young players that have proven what they are capable of.
          Good post. We didn't trade Hanley for David Wells. We traded him for someone who has ace potential. And has already pitched in the World Series and succeeded at that.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by winningtheweapon
            Good post. We didn't trade Hanley for David Wells. We traded him for someone who has ace potential. And has already pitched in the World Series and succeeded at that.

            Not to mention Beckett dominated none other than the Yankees in that World Series.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by winningtheweapon
              Then answer this: why did the Yankees stray from this course when they had several homegrown prospects win them four World Championships?
              Beaten to the punch!!!1!!11 My contribution in bold.
              Originally posted by DoubleX
              Because with winning they got greedy (and very wealthy) and coveted an overpaid All Star at every position at the expense of youth and chemistry. The Yankees income probably sparked greatly in the late 90s, and then again as the YES Network was put into the works at the beginning of this decade, so with all that money to spend a feeling of being accustomed to winning, why not spend all that money on bigtime stars. I didn't like it at the time as it didn't seem like a great way to build a team (I'm firm believer that you need scrappy role players that are more team oriented rather than individualisitc, and the Yankees had become completely devoid of that kind of player). I'm glad that it seems that the team has finally caught on and I think the ultimate product will be a team that is more likeable and less mercenary-like.

              I would not go so far though to say that the Yankees are copying the Red Sox blueprint here(Not that the general idea is their's anyway). In 2005, when the Yankees were getting big contributions from homegrown players Robinson Cano and Chien-Ming Wang, the Sox were still sporting just one everyday homegrown player - Trot Nixon, and at 31, he was hardly young. Yeah, we saw some of the Sox farmhands make some appearances in 2005 - Papelbon pitched a whopping 34 innings in September and Youkils had an impressive 79 ABs, and that led Sox farmhand pitchers and hitters in big league work. Compared to most teams, appearances by Sox farmhands in 2005 was pretty scant, including the Yankees, who again, had major contributions from Cano and Wang (even Scott Proctor pitched more innings for the Yankees in 2005 then any of the Sox farmhands did for the Sox, though Proctor did struggle). So I really don't see how the Yankees are following the Sox model here when the Sox really haven't done anything on the big league level that the Yankees haven't done in terms of utilizing the farm system.

              I think what's more accurately said is that both teams in the past few years have learned the value of nurturing their farm systems and incorporating homegrown talent, and I don't think one team learned from the other.
              Originally posted by winningtheweapon
              All good points, however I do feel Cashman was influenced by Theo's blueprints just a bit.
              *Sigh* Of course you do...
              After an offseason scare with blood clots, Shelley Duncan said yesterday he feels "wonderful -- like a stallion"

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              • #52
                Closing, at the request of the thread starter. The original topic has certainly been well-covered.
                "Anything less would not have been worthy of me. Anything more would not have been possible." - Carl Yastrzemski

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