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Bigger Icon in Red Sox History – Williams or Ortiz?

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  • Bigger Icon in Red Sox History – Williams or Ortiz?

    Ted Williams was a Red Sox from the day he got scouted. Ortiz played all of his relevant years in Boston.

    Ted Williams hit 521 dingers, the last one coming in his final at-bat. David Ortiz upped that by 20 (with 483 of his 541 career HRs in Boston).

    Ted Williams only got into one postseason, and couldn't hit a lick against the Cardinals. David Ortiz has 3 WS rings and a multitude of memorable October moments.

    At his peak, Ted Williams seemed to lead the league in everything, won two Triple Crowns and two MVPs. David Ortiz got two legs of the TC once, and has ALCS and WS MVPs to his name.

    Ted Williams was a 19-time All-Star (inc. 2 years with 2 ASGs, and selections in all but two of his 19 seasons). David Ortiz was a 10-time All-Star in 14 seasons with the Sox.

    Ted Williams was arguably the GOAT hitter. David Ortiz led the charge in breaking the Curse.

    Who's the bigger Red Sox icon? Teddy Ballgame or Big Papi?
    14
    Ted Williams
    85.71%
    12
    David Ortiz
    14.29%
    2

  • #2
    Ted Williams of course. It's not debatable.
    My top 10 players:

    1. Babe Ruth
    2. Barry Bonds
    3. Ty Cobb
    4. Ted Williams
    5. Willie Mays
    6. Alex Rodriguez
    7. Hank Aaron
    8. Honus Wagner
    9. Lou Gehrig
    10. Mickey Mantle

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree. Ortiz is a Boston legend too, but he hasn't been written about in the same light as Ted Williams. Ortiz isn't known as the guy who proclaimed he had hitting down to a science or was the direct inspiration for Joey Votto's approach at the plate. Heck, Williams has a weird post-life story around the family's argument about what's being done with his remains.

      Ortiz, in my humblest of opinions, is not going to reach that level of mystique.
      46 wins to match last year's total

      Comment


      • #4
        living in Boston I would say Ortiz is probably the most beloved person in the entire city....still today. It was even true when Brady was still here. So depending on how you define icon I would say Ortiz. Williams is a legend that is spoken about as though he was a character from fiction, but Ortiz is a living legend in Boston.

        To me it is similar to the question who is the bigger Tiger icon Ty Cobb or Al Kaline. Cobb is the better player by some length, but most Tiger fans would probably argue Kaline...Mr. Tiger.


        Only somewhat related, I have been going to baseball games for around 30 years now, the first 25 years were vast majority in Detroit and the last 5-6 years have been in Boston. And during all of those seasons the two biggest crowd reactions I have ever heard is:

        1) David Ortiz hitting a regular season grand slam off the Tigers
        2) Dustin Pedroia's first AB of 2019, coming back from a lengthy injury (prior to going back to the DL).




        "Batting stats and pitching stats do not indicate the quality of play, merely which part of that struggle is dominant at the moment."

        -Bill James

        Comment


        • #5
          Ted Williams is arguably the greatest hitter who ever lived. And he did it without PEDs. No contest here.
          They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
            Ted Williams is arguably the greatest hitter who ever lived. And he did it without PEDs. No contest here.
            More iconic =/= greater, necessarily.

            Comment


            • #7
              If Williams hadn't missed almost five seasons serving his country in two wars, this wouldn't even be a conversation. Ortiz' stats are highly questionable, if he's more iconic than Ted Williams, Bostonians are worshiping a false idol.
              They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
                If Williams hadn't missed almost five seasons serving his country in two wars, this wouldn't even be a conversation. Ortiz' stats are highly questionable, if he's more iconic than Ted Williams, Bostonians are worshiping a false idol.
                It absolutely would be a discussion because this is not about who is better, this is who is most iconic. You ask any person at Fenway who the greatest hitter ever was and they will say Teddy Ballgame. But there is a special place in their heart that only David Ortiz lives.
                "Batting stats and pitching stats do not indicate the quality of play, merely which part of that struggle is dominant at the moment."

                -Bill James

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
                  I agree. Ortiz is a Boston legend too, but he hasn't been written about in the same light as Ted Williams. Ortiz isn't known as the guy who proclaimed he had hitting down to a science or was the direct inspiration for Joey Votto's approach at the plate. Heck, Williams has a weird post-life story around the family's argument about what's being done with his remains.

                  Ortiz, in my humblest of opinions, is not going to reach that level of mystique.

                  Ortiz is the guy whose clutch hitting brought them their first title in 86 years then added two more for good measure. This is the guy that took the mic after the Boston Bombing and gave a speech that still brings tears to people's eyes. This is the guy that everyone just refers to as Papi.

                  I won't try to claim that it is a slam dunk, but I think that a lot of people are not realizing just how loved Papi is here. I am an outsider who came here like 5-6 years ago and the only thing I can compare it to in my lifetime back in michigan is maybe Steve Yzerman. But I think they love him more here than people in Michigan love Stevie Y.


                  Edit: Also, this should actually be a 3-way poll. Yaz should be here as well.

                  If we are talking greatest red sox player then it is 1. Williams 2. Yaz 3. <not necessarily Ortiz>

                  If we are talking about beloved I would almost argue 1. Ortiz 2. Yaz 3. Williams




                  Last edited by sturg1dj; 06-13-2020, 01:43 PM.
                  "Batting stats and pitching stats do not indicate the quality of play, merely which part of that struggle is dominant at the moment."

                  -Bill James

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I know of the belovedness that sturg is referring to, and it seems relatively easy to recognize the difference between best and most adored. I'd say Ortiz is easily more adored than Williams in Boston, and it's not even close.

                    I'm guessing that part of the equation -- tho certainly not all of it -- is that Williams was never truly loved as a person by the fans, for whom he never tipped his cap nor gave an interview. His relationship with Boston was of the love-hate kind in its day, and Williams remains immortal simply because he was an astounding ballpayer, not because he is or ever was well liked.

                    Ortiz is downright lovable. He's revered not only for his playing, but for his personability as well. I really don't think it's a contest.
                    Put it in the books.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by sturg1dj View Post


                      Ortiz is the guy whose clutch hitting brought them their first title in 86 years then added two more for good measure. This is the guy that took the mic after the Boston Bombing and gave a speech that still brings tears to people's eyes. This is the guy that everyone just refers to as Papi.

                      I won't try to claim that it is a slam dunk, but I think that a lot of people are not realizing just how loved Papi is here. I am an outsider who came here like 5-6 years ago and the only thing I can compare it to in my lifetime back in michigan is maybe Steve Yzerman. But I think they love him more here than people in Michigan love Stevie Y.


                      Edit: Also, this should actually be a 3-way poll. Yaz should be here as well.

                      If we are talking greatest red sox player then it is 1. Williams 2. Yaz 3. <not necessarily Ortiz>

                      If we are talking about beloved I would almost argue 1. Ortiz 2. Yaz 3. Williams



                      Fair points. Maybe Ortiz has reached that level of mystique and I hadn't realized it.
                      46 wins to match last year's total

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post

                        Fair points. Maybe Ortiz has reached that level of mystique and I hadn't realized it.
                        Don't worry. I hadn't either until I got here. I knew they loved him here, but not the level at which they loved him.
                        "Batting stats and pitching stats do not indicate the quality of play, merely which part of that struggle is dominant at the moment."

                        -Bill James

                        Comment

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