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Bigger Icon in Red Sox History – Williams or Ortiz?

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  • sturg1dj
    replied
    Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post

    Fair points. Maybe Ortiz has reached that level of mystique and I hadn't realized it.
    Don't worry. I hadn't either until I got here. I knew they loved him here, but not the level at which they loved him.

    Leave a comment:


  • SamtheBravesFan
    replied
    Originally posted by sturg1dj View Post


    Ortiz is the guy whose clutch hitting brought them their first title in 86 years then added two more for good measure. This is the guy that took the mic after the Boston Bombing and gave a speech that still brings tears to people's eyes. This is the guy that everyone just refers to as Papi.

    I won't try to claim that it is a slam dunk, but I think that a lot of people are not realizing just how loved Papi is here. I am an outsider who came here like 5-6 years ago and the only thing I can compare it to in my lifetime back in michigan is maybe Steve Yzerman. But I think they love him more here than people in Michigan love Stevie Y.


    Edit: Also, this should actually be a 3-way poll. Yaz should be here as well.

    If we are talking greatest red sox player then it is 1. Williams 2. Yaz 3. <not necessarily Ortiz>

    If we are talking about beloved I would almost argue 1. Ortiz 2. Yaz 3. Williams



    Fair points. Maybe Ortiz has reached that level of mystique and I hadn't realized it.

    Leave a comment:


  • milladrive
    replied
    I know of the belovedness that sturg is referring to, and it seems relatively easy to recognize the difference between best and most adored. I'd say Ortiz is easily more adored than Williams in Boston, and it's not even close.

    I'm guessing that part of the equation -- tho certainly not all of it -- is that Williams was never truly loved as a person by the fans, for whom he never tipped his cap nor gave an interview. His relationship with Boston was of the love-hate kind in its day, and Williams remains immortal simply because he was an astounding ballpayer, not because he is or ever was well liked.

    Ortiz is downright lovable. He's revered not only for his playing, but for his personability as well. I really don't think it's a contest.

    Leave a comment:


  • sturg1dj
    replied
    Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    I agree. Ortiz is a Boston legend too, but he hasn't been written about in the same light as Ted Williams. Ortiz isn't known as the guy who proclaimed he had hitting down to a science or was the direct inspiration for Joey Votto's approach at the plate. Heck, Williams has a weird post-life story around the family's argument about what's being done with his remains.

    Ortiz, in my humblest of opinions, is not going to reach that level of mystique.

    Ortiz is the guy whose clutch hitting brought them their first title in 86 years then added two more for good measure. This is the guy that took the mic after the Boston Bombing and gave a speech that still brings tears to people's eyes. This is the guy that everyone just refers to as Papi.

    I won't try to claim that it is a slam dunk, but I think that a lot of people are not realizing just how loved Papi is here. I am an outsider who came here like 5-6 years ago and the only thing I can compare it to in my lifetime back in michigan is maybe Steve Yzerman. But I think they love him more here than people in Michigan love Stevie Y.


    Edit: Also, this should actually be a 3-way poll. Yaz should be here as well.

    If we are talking greatest red sox player then it is 1. Williams 2. Yaz 3. <not necessarily Ortiz>

    If we are talking about beloved I would almost argue 1. Ortiz 2. Yaz 3. Williams




    Last edited by sturg1dj; 06-13-2020, 01:43 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • sturg1dj
    replied
    Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    If Williams hadn't missed almost five seasons serving his country in two wars, this wouldn't even be a conversation. Ortiz' stats are highly questionable, if he's more iconic than Ted Williams, Bostonians are worshiping a false idol.
    It absolutely would be a discussion because this is not about who is better, this is who is most iconic. You ask any person at Fenway who the greatest hitter ever was and they will say Teddy Ballgame. But there is a special place in their heart that only David Ortiz lives.

    Leave a comment:


  • ol' aches and pains
    replied
    If Williams hadn't missed almost five seasons serving his country in two wars, this wouldn't even be a conversation. Ortiz' stats are highly questionable, if he's more iconic than Ted Williams, Bostonians are worshiping a false idol.

    Leave a comment:


  • pedrosrotatorcuff
    replied
    Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    Ted Williams is arguably the greatest hitter who ever lived. And he did it without PEDs. No contest here.
    More iconic =/= greater, necessarily.

    Leave a comment:


  • ol' aches and pains
    replied
    Ted Williams is arguably the greatest hitter who ever lived. And he did it without PEDs. No contest here.

    Leave a comment:


  • sturg1dj
    replied
    living in Boston I would say Ortiz is probably the most beloved person in the entire city....still today. It was even true when Brady was still here. So depending on how you define icon I would say Ortiz. Williams is a legend that is spoken about as though he was a character from fiction, but Ortiz is a living legend in Boston.

    To me it is similar to the question who is the bigger Tiger icon Ty Cobb or Al Kaline. Cobb is the better player by some length, but most Tiger fans would probably argue Kaline...Mr. Tiger.


    Only somewhat related, I have been going to baseball games for around 30 years now, the first 25 years were vast majority in Detroit and the last 5-6 years have been in Boston. And during all of those seasons the two biggest crowd reactions I have ever heard is:

    1) David Ortiz hitting a regular season grand slam off the Tigers
    2) Dustin Pedroia's first AB of 2019, coming back from a lengthy injury (prior to going back to the DL).




    Leave a comment:


  • SamtheBravesFan
    replied
    I agree. Ortiz is a Boston legend too, but he hasn't been written about in the same light as Ted Williams. Ortiz isn't known as the guy who proclaimed he had hitting down to a science or was the direct inspiration for Joey Votto's approach at the plate. Heck, Williams has a weird post-life story around the family's argument about what's being done with his remains.

    Ortiz, in my humblest of opinions, is not going to reach that level of mystique.

    Leave a comment:


  • GiambiJuice
    replied
    Ted Williams of course. It's not debatable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bigger Icon in Red Sox History – Williams or Ortiz?

    14
    Ted Williams
    85.71%
    12
    David Ortiz
    14.29%
    2
    Ted Williams was a Red Sox from the day he got scouted. Ortiz played all of his relevant years in Boston.

    Ted Williams hit 521 dingers, the last one coming in his final at-bat. David Ortiz upped that by 20 (with 483 of his 541 career HRs in Boston).

    Ted Williams only got into one postseason, and couldn't hit a lick against the Cardinals. David Ortiz has 3 WS rings and a multitude of memorable October moments.

    At his peak, Ted Williams seemed to lead the league in everything, won two Triple Crowns and two MVPs. David Ortiz got two legs of the TC once, and has ALCS and WS MVPs to his name.

    Ted Williams was a 19-time All-Star (inc. 2 years with 2 ASGs, and selections in all but two of his 19 seasons). David Ortiz was a 10-time All-Star in 14 seasons with the Sox.

    Ted Williams was arguably the GOAT hitter. David Ortiz led the charge in breaking the Curse.

    Who's the bigger Red Sox icon? Teddy Ballgame or Big Papi?

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