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  • The 1904 World Series

    Here is something that I have been thinking about for a couple of months now:

    Okay, so in 1903 the Boston Red Sox (formerly known as the Boston Americans) won the first World Series. Being Managed by Jimmy Collins, the Red Sox were able to win 4 of the 8 games that they played against the Pittsburge Pirates. It wasnt easy though. The Red Sox started the series down 3-1 to the Pirates. The came back and won the next 4 games, something that would not happen again for 22 years. Of course, the Red Sox were able to do this not only with physical ability, but also with the support of thier fans. Especially the Royal Rooters, who travelled to Pittsburge and sung the song "Tessir" to distract the Pirates. This was an amazing series for baseball, and the first World Series turned out to be a great one.

    But in 1904, what was supposed to be the 2nd World Series, was not played, due to some bitter feeling from the New York Giants manager, Jown McGraw. The Red Sox repeated as AL Champions, while the Giants had won the NL title. McGraw, though, did not have kind feelings towards the American League. He refused to let the Gaints play the Red Sox, calling the AL the "junior" or "minor" league. So no one is credited with winning the 1904 World Series.

    But lets see:

    1. The Red Sox were the defending champions from 1903.
    2. The Giants refused to play the Red Sox which basically means that they forfieted the series.
    3. When a team forfiets, doesnt the opponent usually get to take home the win?

    Think about it, not only were the Red Sox defending champions but the Giants forfieted the Series. So shouldnt the 1904 World Series title belong to the Red Sox?
    "Original sin wasn't when Eve ate the apple, but when those damn unicorns didn't get on the ark"- Haley Murphy Morrill (2/14/92 - 9/26/07)

    ^^this was the last status update that Haley had on her facebook page^^

    Haley you will always be in my heart <

  • #2
    I started this thread a while back:
    http://www.baseball-fever.com/archiv...p/t-46461.html

    Basically the popular opinion was that the WS wasn't a designated annual event yet. So the Giants weren't obligated to play. I'd have to agree with that.

    Comment


    • #3
      If it was a legitimate beef we'd have hoisted the flag by now. I have no doubt that back in the day, Nuff Ced among others would have made exactly that case if the case was to be made and they would have at least tried to hoist a 1904 WS Champs flag until and unless league officials told them to stop..

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      • #4
        Both Boston & NY raised flags as each considered themselves the champion of the world.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Macker View Post
          Both Boston & NY raised flags as each considered themselves the champion of the world.
          Despite the rest of the world not being invited to play...
          :cap:

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Silver Blaze View Post
            Despite the rest of the world not being invited to play...
            Considering it was 1904 and practically no other countries had pro leagues (except maybe Canada) I don't the rest of the world minded.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Williamsburg2599 View Post
              Considering it was 1904 and practically no other countries had pro leagues (except maybe Canada) I don't the rest of the world minded.
              More than 100 years later the world has caught up, but still aren't invited to the "World" Series....
              :cap:

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Silver Blaze View Post
                More than 100 years later the world has caught up, but still aren't invited to the "World" Series....
                It is getting to the point that calling it the "World Series" is really egregious.
                What should the replacement name be?
                How about the Aaron Cup??
                "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Silver Blaze View Post
                  More than 100 years later the world has caught up, but still aren't invited to the "World" Series....
                  Ok. Team Japan Vs. The Boston Red Sox. I can see if your arguing that countries aren't playing countries so it should be called the World Series, but a MLB team playing a NPB team (or any other league) would make zero sense right now for many reasons (Mainly very diffrent rules, diffrent free agency pools, stadium sizes, baseball sizes) Not to mention MLB has players from over 14 countries. So unless some rich business man find someway to start an MLB team in Tokyo, I don't see the world series being that outragous of a title. (Not to mention the name being a 104 year tradition)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well we cant call it the USA series either, because certain states haven't been invited either. Yawn.
                    Originally posted by Domenic
                    The Yankees should see if Yogi Berra can still get behind the plate - he has ten World Series rings... he must be worth forty or fifty million a season.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Joe Buck: ....And Red Sox fans have longed to hear it! The Boston Red Sox are 2004 17 State, 1 District and 1 Province Series Champions!:radio
                      Last edited by Williamsburg2599; 12-16-2007, 08:18 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't think we can say the Giants forfeited. The World Series between the AL and NL was still a very novel event in 1904, a far, far cry from the annual tradition it's become, so I don't think it was expected or required that the champions of each league would necessarily meet. The AL itself was still in its extreme infancy, having existed since just 1901, and the Giants owner at that time wasn't yet willing to accept the AL as a true league. In his mind, the NL was the only real professional league, and thus the Giants were champions (though you'd think the Sox winning the year before would be a statement about the AL's legitimacy).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The World Series wasn't really an event in 1904. 1903s occured because Boston and Pittsburg worked it out between themselves.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by redsoxocd View Post
                            But in 1904, what was supposed to be the 2nd World Series, was not played, due to some bitter feeling from the New York Giants manager, Jown McGraw. The Red Sox repeated as AL Champions, while the Giants had won the NL title. McGraw, though, did not have kind feelings towards the American League. He refused to let the Gaints play the Red Sox, calling the AL the "junior" or "minor" league. So no one is credited with winning the 1904 World Series.

                            Think about it, not only were the Red Sox defending champions but the Giants forfieted the Series. So shouldnt the 1904 World Series title belong to the Red Sox?
                            The postseason championship in 1903 was held due to an agreement with Boston and Pittsburg owners. It was informal and not mandated by the league.

                            John Brush of the Giants held the power - not McGraw - therefore it was his decision not to participate.

                            Yes, there was hard feelings by Brush and McGraw against the AL in 1904 for moving a club into their territory. The major to-do though came due to the strength of the Highlanders not Boston. By July, the Giants were flatly stating that there was no way they would play the Highlanders in October. Part of their argument was a stand against the AL.

                            When Boston won the pennant, the Giants stuck to their argument and wouldn't agree to a nonmadated series. There was no forfeit or title because the series never existed.

                            That winter, a now contrite Brush led a move that won approval mandating the postseason.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bkmckenna View Post

                              Yes, there was hard feelings by Brush and McGraw against the AL in 1904 for moving a club into their territory.
                              Even back then, everyone hated the Yankees.

                              Comment

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