Who is the Biggest Goat in Boston History

[zahavasdad]

Who would you vote for the biggest goat in Boston sports history


(1) Johnny Pesky
(2) Bucky Dent (OK he is a Yankee)
(3) Bill Buckner
(4) Other Nominee

[Imgran]

In my career as a fan? Grady Little. But I only go back to 1990 or so.

[DoubleX]

It's got to be Buckner. Some will argue that he shouldn't have been on the field anyway given his injuries, but a professional baseball player that is able enough to be in the game, has to make a routine play like that, particularly given the importance of the situation (i.e. he makes that play, the Sox win).

[zahavasdad]

UH, the game was tied already when Buckner booted the Ball, Bob Stanley threw a wild pitch to score the tying run and Ray Knight moved up to 2nd base.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Don't forget Calvin Schiraldi, who blew the lead. Or manager John McNamara, who decided to keep Buckner in the game even though he had used Dave Stapleton in late inning games in the past for defensive purposes. Some have said he did it so the veteran Buckner could be on the field for the final out. As noble as that may be . . .

It didn't take owner Harry Frazee too long to break up a team that was as dominant as any in the 1910's. As a baseball owner, his chief concerns were elsewhere.

[hellborn]

Calvin Schiraldi.
He was just a kid, but was so awful in '86. Just fired BP down the middle of the plate. He blew up in Game 7 of the WS, too.
Maybe McNamara should get the blame for sending him out there and not putting Stapleton in for Billy Buck...I hold nothing against Buckner, the guy could barely walk.

[KCGHOST]

I got to believe it was Frazee for selling Babe Ruth.

[MadHatter]

1) Bill Buckner
2) Bob Stanley
3) Mike Torrez

Ooooh... Frazee was a good one too! But who HASN'T seen this?

[zahavasdad]

Frazee I belive in some sense had to get rid of Ruth.

Ruth's partying didnt go well with Puritanical Boston (at the time) and there was no way Frazee could have known he sold the greatest player ever.

Buckner , Peskey and Dent DIRECTLY cost Boston Pennants and World Series by their immediate actions

[zahavasdad]

BTW I do think its interesting that Peskey seems to have gotten a free pass in Boston and even has a landmark in Fenway named for him

[Captain Cold Nose]

Frazee I belive in some sense had to get rid of Ruth.

Ruth's partying didnt go well with Puritanical Boston (at the time) and there was no way Frazee could have known he sold the greatest player ever.

Buckner , Peskey and Dent DIRECTLY cost Boston Pennants and World Series by their immediate actions

What about Speaker, Mays, Pennock, Dugan, etc.?

What Dent did was be a spoiler, not a goat.

[Captain Cold Nose]

BTW I do think its interesting that Peskey seems to have gotten a free pass in Boston and even has a landmark in Fenway named for him

Has he really gotten a free pass? You do hear his name mentioned among the greatest goats in baseball history for "holding the ball" even though I think it was not too off from being a routine play for Slaughter to score on that hit. Pesky has put years and years of service with Boston, and that kind of helps him there.

[hellborn]

Has he really gotten a free pass? You do hear his name mentioned among the greatest goats in baseball history for "holding the ball" even though I think it was not too off from being a routine play for Slaughter to score on that hit. Pesky has put years and years of service with Boston, and that kind of helps him there.

I think that Pesky's play is relatively minor...a moment's hesitation, and I think that he claimed that nobody on the IF was hollering at him to take it home. I'm not sure that they had that great a play on Slaughter, anyway. Why such a focus on Pesky and not on the guy allowing the baserunners? Who was it, even?
Ted also takes a bad rap for hitting .200 or whatever with no power in that Series...he got hit right on the elbow in a meaningless exhibition game right before the Series started (can you imagine that happening today??) and was stiff and in pain for all the games, plus Musial pretty much stunk, also, and didn't take nearly as much grief. Shame on the Bosox management for agreeing to play that game, Ted's elbow swelled up like a grapefruit.

[Doctor X]

There are those who are and those who should be. It is all about perception. How many non-fans think the Buckner play happened in Game 7? Seriously! Or if Buckner made the play the Red Sox would have won? Most I know who are not seriously into baseball.

Are Goats and Should Be:

Grady Little: players make mistakes. No one is perfect. There are, however, a few times where a decision is clear and the person does it the wrong thing anyways. Little spent a season ignoring statistics which were clear regarding Pedro's pitch count. During the game, he ignored how Pedro was playing. I do not haved my copy of Feeding the Monster handy but, apparently, one of the owners turned to another or Theo when Pedro came back out and asked if it was too late to fire Little.

The problem is there is no "iconic" video of this bad decision. You see Aaron [CENSORED--Ed.] Boone's home run, but that is in extra-innings.

Had the Red Sox not comeback to win in 2004 . . . had history repeated itself with more years of failure . . . I think more people would point to Little's incompetence. I call it that because he was given the information, over the season, to make the correct call. He ignored it.

Don Zimmer: the Grady Little of the seventies. He is more iconic. See his picture, you think of the "Boston Masacre." One of the few people to achieve the distinction of being hated in both NY and Boston. Even a MFY Fan-Friend states that as much as MFY fans hated Pedro Martinez, they cheered when he "gong sau'd" the fat chipmunk to the ground.

Harry Frazee: I am sure I do not have to tell anyone he did not actually "sell" Ruth to finance No, No Nanette but . . . who cares! The story is too good! Nevertheless, he should have recognized what Ruth represented. It was also not just Ruth who went to the MFYs.

Are Not Goats but Should Be:

Bob Stanley: He did not cover first, along with his wild pitch he tries to blame the catcher for. After his team climbs back into an extra-inning lead, he destroyed it. Unfortunately, he is not in the "iconic image" so Bill Buckner gets the blame.

Calvin Schiraldi: Put them in the mess in the first place. However, Buckner film . . . everyone forgets.

Eric Gagne: Because! Okay . . . okay . . . still . . .

Are Goats but Should Not Be:

Bill Buckner: I do not know how a player refuses to play. It goes against their instincts. Should he have pulled himself? Should Pedro have refused to pitch that inning? His playing during the season helped get the Red Sox to that series. Did not save him from getting the blame, and it is grossly unfair.

Are Goats but May Not Be for Much Longer:

Dan Duquette: Long hated for getting rid of Roger Clemens. How could he think Roger was "done?" Two WS wins and the recent steroid scandals may soften all of that.

Pesky? When I were a lad, growing up outside of Boston, I never heard railing against Pesky. Maybe this was something for the older generation. Always heard about "selling Ruth." Take that for what it is worth.

--J.D.

[zahavasdad]

Sometime you win by Losing, so to make Grady little a goat, maybe the Sox would never have won the series if it wasnt for Grady Little


When Buckner muffed the ball the game was tied and he is villian, Pesky gave up the winning Run in the ONLY Boston WS appearence for 50 years