Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Short Stop Issue

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Cora's contract expires at the end of this year. I could see Lowrie playing a bench role easily enough -- of course, Chone Figgins would be a free agent that year and I'd be absolutely estatic if we could win him (but he'll probably want to start, bringing us back to Lowrie)

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by JerseySoxFan19 View Post
      yeah well bottom line i think theo goes loses all of his senses when we go after short stops. from now on we shoulod just sign guys for 1 year so we don't wind up stuck paying a guy who hits .230 10-20 mil. a year or something like that
      Theo doesn't lose his senses.. Cabrera (losing him) and Renteria were absolute bad luck, Gonzo put up what was expected of him (which wasn't enough,) and Lugo just didn't perform. It's bad luck, not because he "loses all of his senses".

      And it's not as simple as signing anyone you want for one year. It doesn't happen. 95/100 Times we won't draw anyone in with a one year deal unless it's a player making a come back.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Imgran View Post
        Cora's contract expires at the end of this year. I could see Lowrie playing a bench role easily enough -- of course, Chone Figgins would be a free agent that year and I'd be absolutely estatic if we could win him (but he'll probably want to start, bringing us back to Lowrie)
        I highly doubt the Angels would let Chone Figgins go. However, if Lowrie earned a spot this year or got some ML at bats off the bench and doesn't do so well, we could try and pry Figgins from the Angels.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Imgran View Post
          Cora's contract expires at the end of this year. I could see Lowrie playing a bench role easily enough -- of course, Chone Figgins would be a free agent that year and I'd be absolutely estatic if we could win him (but he'll probably want to start, bringing us back to Lowrie)
          Figgins will bring them some depth at the position and in the outfield and on the bases(nice combo!) but unless Lowrie flops in Pawtucket he's got a lock on the position in '09.

          Regarding Cora, Cora knew he wasn't getting much playing time nor getting much career security beyond '08 but getting a second ring and some decent money to ride the bench isn't too bad either...plus he is trade bait if Lowrie is ready for the big leagues this year, so he may get to play full time elsewhere at some point in the year.
          Best posts ever:
          Originally posted by nymdan
          Too... much... math... head... hurts...
          Originally posted by RuthMayBond
          I understand, I lost all my marbles years ago

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Charger567 View Post
            Theo doesn't lose his senses.. Cabrera (losing him) and Renteria were absolute bad luck, Gonzo put up what was expected of him (which wasn't enough,) and Lugo just didn't perform. It's bad luck, not because he "loses all of his senses".

            And it's not as simple as signing anyone you want for one year. It doesn't happen. 95/100 Times we won't draw anyone in with a one year deal unless it's a player making a come back.
            How's that bad luck? He choose Renteria over Cabrera, most people knew there wasn't much of a difference between the two and Cabrera established himself as a part of 2004 team, then he decided to ship Renteria out, though in this case, it was a good move, because Renteria clearly wasn't comfortable in Boston. I don't see that as bad luck, just bad evaluation on Theo's part.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mike D. View Post
              One bad year out of a 4 year contract isn't enough to call it a bust...give it time, and hope for the best.
              It was enough to call Renteria a bust, who wasn't as bad as Lugo and was better than Lugo before he to the Sox. The Sox were so eager to get Renteria out of town that they paid the Braves to take him, then a year later sign Lugo, a Renteria clone that's not as good as Renteria, to even more money than they originally signed Renteria.

              The Sox probably should have kept Orlando Cabrera instead of lusting Renteria so much. Cabrera fit in very nicely during his short stay with the Sox, and he's been a pretty good hitter the past couple of years.

              On the bright side, you have to figure Lugo will improve from last year. Despite his poor play, he still knocked in 73 runs as a SS, so imagine what he could do if he plays closer to his career norms. If Lugo struggles, Jed Lowrie looks to be a good hitter to me, and could step in.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by efin98 View Post
                Figgins will bring them some depth at the position and in the outfield and on the bases(nice combo!) but unless Lowrie flops in Pawtucket he's got a lock on the position in '09.

                Regarding Cora, Cora knew he wasn't getting much playing time nor getting much career security beyond '08 but getting a second ring and some decent money to ride the bench isn't too bad either...plus he is trade bait if Lowrie is ready for the big leagues this year, so he may get to play full time elsewhere at some point in the year.
                Cora's actually done reasonably well for playing time here, at least as a utility man.

                If we do dump Lugo, and I doubt Theo would actually do it, I could see using Cora for exactly the same thing we used him for last year with Pedroia -- stability and a veteran utility presence to help keep a green kid out of trouble.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Evangelion View Post
                  How's that bad luck? He choose Renteria over Cabrera, most people knew there wasn't much of a difference between the two and Cabrera established himself as a part of 2004 team, then he decided to ship Renteria out, though in this case, it was a good move, because Renteria clearly wasn't comfortable in Boston. I don't see that as bad luck, just bad evaluation on Theo's part.
                  You must think Theo is a prophet. I assure you, nobody was thinking "We're screwed, he's a choker." when we signed Renteria. You were thinking "Oh good, a gold glove shortstop. Great move." When a gold glove short stop comes to your city and has a .950 fielding percentage for no reason, it's bad luck. Or if I'm wrong, please, next time we sign someone, call Theo and let him know if he's going to choke or not.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Charger567 View Post
                    You must think Theo is a prophet. I assure you, nobody was thinking "We're screwed, he's a choker." when we signed Renteria. You were thinking "Oh good, a gold glove shortstop. Great move." When a gold glove short stop comes to your city and has a .950 fielding percentage for no reason, it's bad luck. Or if I'm wrong, please, next time we sign someone, call Theo and let him know if he's going to choke or not.
                    Theo likely won't use the excuse of "bad luck" when he evaluated poorly and it's more than evaluating numbers. It's a bad decision, not bad luck. We had a gold glove shortstop Carbera, who played good glove shortstop while in Boston, but Boston decide to go with Renteria, who wasn't much of a upgrade, if you want to call it that. You can call that bad luck, I just call it a bad decision and I'm not throwing Theo under the bus for it, but I'm not going to sugar coat his bad decision by calling it bad luck, when it's not.

                    It's bad luck when a player with no track record of injury went down with a fluke injury. A player not handling pressure of a city? You need to consider that when signing a player that's played in small market cities or cities where media focus isn't too much. Renteria played in St. Louis and Florida before coming to Boston. He couldn't handle the city, he did not choke, he was under performing, but a under performing Renteria was much better than Lugo last season, just to add. So, let's keep that in mind. Renteria was unhappy with the market and asked for the trade. Cabrera wasn't, you knew what you got in Cabrera since he handle Boston for a half season and you speculate what you would get Renteria if you brought him instead of Cabrera. Projections of Renteria were not that much greater than Cabrera, not enough to let a player you know what you're getting with go in Cabrera. I take the close to for sure deal than projections of another player, projections not much greater in Renteria than the close to for sure deal in Cabrera.

                    Let's use that weak excuse of bad luck for Lugo, too. It's not luck, just a bad decision or/and evaluate, pick the word you like, just don't use bad luck, because it's not. It's likely a cop out I don't even believe Theo would use.

                    No, I was thinking "Why let Cabrera go? Renteria honestly wasn't that much better." To my knowledge, most people were not sure why Boston went with Renteria instead of Cabrera. Not in a negative train of thought, but more of "Why?" train of thought.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Imgran View Post
                      Cora's actually done reasonably well for playing time here, at least as a utility man.

                      If we do dump Lugo, and I doubt Theo would actually do it, I could see using Cora for exactly the same thing we used him for last year with Pedroia -- stability and a veteran utility presence to help keep a green kid out of trouble.
                      I don't think that he will do it for another season or two though, he can make the same amount elsewhere with more playing time even at the expense of winning.
                      Best posts ever:
                      Originally posted by nymdan
                      Too... much... math... head... hurts...
                      Originally posted by RuthMayBond
                      I understand, I lost all my marbles years ago

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Frankly, Cora's not good enough to start. There's only a couple of teams that would consider him and there's a lot of other players they'd consider before him. About the only one I can think of at this point would probably be the Royals, and he's not enough of an upgrade over Tony Pena, jr. to make it worthwhile for them. The OBP is just too low despite how fundamentally sound Cora is.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Imgran View Post
                          Frankly, Cora's not good enough to start. There's only a couple of teams that would consider him and there's a lot of other players they'd consider before him. About the only one I can think of at this point would probably be the Royals, and he's not enough of an upgrade over Tony Pena, jr. to make it worthwhile for them. The OBP is just too low despite how fundamentally sound Cora is.
                          Cora is also vastly overpaid for what he brings (2 million), as most teams can find a player like Cora within their own system, and thus I think it would be hard for the Sox to find someone wanting to trade for Cora.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                            It was enough to call Renteria a bust, who wasn't as bad as Lugo and was better than Lugo before he to the Sox. The Sox were so eager to get Renteria out of town that they paid the Braves to take him, then a year later sign Lugo, a Renteria clone that's not as good as Renteria, to even more money than they originally signed Renteria.

                            The Sox probably should have kept Orlando Cabrera instead of lusting Renteria so much. Cabrera fit in very nicely during his short stay with the Sox, and he's been a pretty good hitter the past couple of years.

                            On the bright side, you have to figure Lugo will improve from last year. Despite his poor play, he still knocked in 73 runs as a SS, so imagine what he could do if he plays closer to his career norms. If Lugo struggles, Jed Lowrie looks to be a good hitter to me, and could step in.
                            renteria made 30 something errors if my mind serves me correctly and hit like .269

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by JerseySoxFan19 View Post
                              renteria made 30 something errors if my mind serves me correctly and hit like .269
                              Renteria did make 30 errors that year in what was probably his worst defensive season, but throughout his career, he has been a better defensive SS than Lugo, perhaps significantly so.

                              Renteria hit .276 his season with the Sox and had an 89 OPS+, which is not good, but you can live with that at a SS. His OBP was .335 that year. Lugo in comparison hit .237, had an OBP, of .294, and a completely terrible OPS+ of 65. I haven't looked it up, but with such putrid production, Lugo might have been the worst everyday player in the league last year. You do not want that guy of player getting anywhere close to the 630 plate appearances the Sox gave him last year. They probably would have been better off with Cora out there.

                              If you compare the two over their careers, Renteria has been a noticeably better player. Renteria has a 97 career OPS+ in 7400 plate appearances, and that's pretty good for a SS over that large of a sample. Lugo in contrast has an 88 OPS+ in 4425 plate appearances. That's a pretty big gap in quality there, especially given the difference in plate appearances, and puts Lugo close to mediocrity (if not in it) for his career). Like I said before, I just can't understand why the team would pay another team to take Renteria off their hands, and then turn around and give Lugo, a similarly skilled but not as good a player as Renteria, more money.
                              Last edited by DoubleX; 03-04-2008, 01:55 PM.

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X