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Manny: Best Sox LFer Ever?

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  • Manny: Best Sox LFer Ever?

    I came across this little blurb today in which Manny proclaims himself the best Red Sox LFer ever. I wanted to see what Sox fans think.

    The Sox have a wealth of historical talent in LF. For most organizations, Manny would have a very strong claim to best LFer ever, but in Boston, it's a tough competition with Ted Williams and Carl Yastrzemski in there, and some might consider Jim Rice as well (not me though).

  • #2
    Well, according to the article from which that blurb came, it seems as though Manny was referring to his defense.
    He has a pretty strong throwing arm and plays the Monster well (and because of this, you occasionally see him pick off someone trying to stretch a single into a double). But that's about it. He certainly doesn't run well; he just takes these long, awkward strides almost like he's jogging.
    The author seems convinced that Manny wasn't joking when he said this. I'm hoping he was. There have definitely been much more agile left fielders over the years at Fenway. Yastrzemski comes to mind. Unfortunately, I've really only known Ramirez in left (he started there when I was in 6th grade). But it's safe to say there have been better.

    Here's the full article, for what it's worth:
    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/b...sox&position=3
    "Gentlemen, for the first sixty feet, that was a hell of a pitch."
    -Warren Spahn after giving up a deep home run to rookie Willie Mays

    RED SOX 2007 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS!

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    • #3
      Assuming Manny wasn't talking about defense, I'd have to rank him behind Splinter and Yaz. Yaz' peak wasn't very long, but he did have some really awesome years with the bat (at least comparable to Manny's best) and was an excellent LFer. Splinter was probably a lot like Manny in LF, maybe not as good an arm, but was a level above with the bat, in my opinion, even factoring in integration and league quality.
      When you consider that Manny had some of his best years in Cleveland, not Boston, it's hard for him to measure up to Yaz and Splinter. I would take him over Rice anyday, though, although I think that Jim was a better fielder. Maybe not any better effort, but fewer weird and clumsy plays.
      "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

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      • #4
        If it was just about defense, I don't see how you could pick against Carl Yastrzemski who was one of the best defensive LFers ever, not just for the Sox. I'm sure there are others in Sox history who were better defensive LFers as well.

        I will say though that Manny does have a pretty good arm (though, it might look better at Fenway than it really is because he's close to the IF to begin with) and he plays the wall well. Some people will say he can make nice plays, but I think it's really the Jeter Effect, in that sometimes a bad fielder looks to be making a nice play because it takes extra for them to make that play, whereas a better fielder would do it much more routinely.

        Offensively, Manny would rank only behind Ted Williams, and that's really no shame, as I think pretty much everyone not named Babe Ruth ranks behind Ted Williams offensively. I'd put Yastrzemski ahead of Ramirez based on overall ability and longevity, but when all is said and done, it's very plausible that Manny's offense will put him ahead of Yastrzemski, which in my book, should put Manny among the top 30 players ever (I have Yaz around 30).

        Also worth noting, if we talk about single best seasons by a Red Sox LFer, a certain converted pitcher's 1919 season should rank up there - .322, 29, 114, 219 OPS+. The 29 homeruns is particularly impressive considering it came in just 430 ABs and during the deadball era, while also pitching 134 innings that year.

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        • #5
          Manny mentioning himself as the best ever with a glove involved is absurd.
          Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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          • #6
            Sarcasm, anyone?
            Last edited by Westlake; 05-14-2008, 11:37 AM.
            Originally posted by Domenic
            The Yankees should see if Yogi Berra can still get behind the plate - he has ten World Series rings... he must be worth forty or fifty million a season.

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            • #7
              Manny

              Manny make act like a 12-year old sometimes, but he is the best right handed hitter the Red Sox ever had. Ted Williams is the best left-hander.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Westlake View Post
                Sarcasm, anyone?
                I'm sure he's sick of hearing about how bad (and lackadaisical) he is out there. And lackadiasical in general.

                Manny seems to have a weird sense of humor. The selling of his barbecue (or attempt. Last I checked, it has received some very bogus high bids) on eBay shows he's a guy who likes to enjoy himself when he can. He knows something like that will cause an uproar or two.

                And if he does think he's the best? A lot of elites in every walk of life suffer from lack of humility. It's just athlete being athlete.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                  I will say though that Manny does have a pretty good arm (though, it might look better at Fenway than it really is because he's close to the IF to begin with) and he plays the wall well. Some people will say he can make nice plays, but I think it's really the Jeter Effect, in that sometimes a bad fielder looks to be making a nice play because it takes extra for them to make that play, whereas a better fielder would do it much more routinely.
                  Nope, I won't contribute the Jeter effect here. Ramirez does play the wall well and does have a good arm. At Fenway, Ramirez is a decent fielder. On the road with more ground to cover, that's a different story. The Jeter effect doesn't apply here since Jeter's poor range forces him to make the "cool" diving plays while a SS with better range would make that play routinely. It's not like Ramirez is diving for balls on routine plays in the outfield that would give people the impression he's a great outfielder. If he did, he might win a GG like Jeter.

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                  • #10
                    If Manny made that statement he is very delusional. Ted Williams is one of the 5 best players of all time. Manny aint even close to that. Manny is an RBI machine but When youre talking about Teddy Ballgame you are in the Pantheon of immortals.
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Evangelion View Post
                      Nope, I won't contribute the Jeter effect here. Ramirez does play the wall well and does have a good arm. At Fenway, Ramirez is a decent fielder. On the road with more ground to cover, that's a different story. The Jeter effect doesn't apply here since Jeter's poor range forces him to make the "cool" diving plays while a SS with better range would make that play routinely. It's not like Ramirez is diving for balls on routine plays in the outfield that would give people the impression he's a great outfielder. If he did, he might win a GG like Jeter.
                      I'm not talking about the Jeter effect in respect to how Manny plays the wall or throws, but seemingly every time Manny dives or lunges for a ball, it makes the highlight real, when in actuality, a better OFer wouldn't need to dive, just as a better SS would not need as much theatrics as Jeter on some of the plays he makes.

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                      • #12
                        Ahem...


                        NO

                        Ramirez has been a great player in Red Sox history, but there is no way he beats out Williams. For fielding, he is pretty good in left but this can't make up for the hitting of Williams.
                        "Allen Sutton Sothoron pitched his initials off today."--1920s article

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bpbp00
                          Manny make act like a 12-year old sometimes, but he is the best right handed hitter the Red Sox ever had. Ted Williams is the best left-hander.
                          Originally posted by DoubleX
                          Offensively, Manny would rank only behind Ted Williams, and that's really no shame, as I think pretty much everyone not named Babe Ruth ranks behind Ted Williams offensively. I'd put Yastrzemski ahead of Ramirez based on overall ability and longevity, but when all is said and done, it's very plausible that Manny's offense will put him ahead of Yastrzemski, which in my book, should put Manny among the top 30 players ever (I have Yaz around 30).
                          Ted Williams is best - I'm fairly sure that's noncontroversial. I don't understand how anyone can justify Yastrzemski over Ramirez in terms of run production. I understand that Yastrzemski was a great player, but I feel as though a lot of plaudits he receives are more based on his likability, his leadership on those 60's and 70's teams, and nostalgia than his capability as a hitter. Objectively, Manny's offense is superior.

                          Surely anyone who says that Manny is a competent left fielder is pretending. Last year the Hardball Times proclaimed him the worst in the big leagues.

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                          • #14
                            I did not see Ted. But I have heard enough to believe that nobody could shine his shoes offensively. I don't know much about his defense, though.
                            Defensively, you are talking about the toughest left field in baseball. But saw one man who could play it as if he were born there. That was Yaz.

                            Welcome back ARod. Hope you are a Yankee forever.
                            Phil Rizzuto-a Yankee forever.

                            Holy Cow

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Johnny Evers View Post
                              Ted Williams is best - I'm fairly sure that's noncontroversial. I don't understand how anyone can justify Yastrzemski over Ramirez in terms of run production. I understand that Yastrzemski was a great player, but I feel as though a lot of plaudits he receives are more based on his likability, his leadership on those 60's and 70's teams, and nostalgia than his capability as a hitter. Objectively, Manny's offense is superior.

                              Surely anyone who says that Manny is a competent left fielder is pretending. Last year the Hardball Times proclaimed him the worst in the big leagues.
                              i dont care what baseball "experts" say...Manny is the best Red sox LF i have ever seen. I can remember Yaz at first base, but never personally saw him play the OF, so its Manny for me.

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