A Red Sox lineup and outfield without Manny Ramirez

[Mattingly]

Hopefully, this isn't seen as "clutter" amongst the existing Manny-related threads.

Ever since he was acquired in 2001 by the BoSox as a free agent, he's been a very tough part of the lineup. Adding Ortiz first behind him, and eventually i front of him, have made for a very worthy offwnsive force. Added to the various table setters btting cleanup and #2 over those years, almost always guaranteed that all but the most noteworthy of pitchers would have difficulting in both pitching to Boston's lineup, and who, if anyone, would get IBB'd.

With the acquisition of Jason Bay, how do the fans here feel that the lineup and outfield defense will be affected? There are still potent offensive forces in Ortiz, Lowell, Drew, Youkilis and others. However, does Boston's offensive seem nearly as good now as it did then?

Specifically, who bats cleanup? Is that person, and I'm presuming it's Lowell, going to mean that Ortiz gets the same quality pitches, or perhaps IBB'd with the game on the line and a base open?

Astly, what did you folks think of Manny's defense? I remember that around 2005 or 2006 after he was pushed back closer to the Green Monstah, he became much more effective in quickly throwing back balls off the wall. Any idea if Jason Bay will improve upon this?

Many (Manny?) thanks in advance for your replies. : D

[Senor Octobre]

The defense should be better, at least when Bay learns how to play the Monster. As for who bats cleanup, I'd like to think that eventually (if not right away) it would be Bay. Not to throw him into the pressurized situation of a pennant race but besides Ortiz, Bay is potentially the best hitter on the team.

[VTSoxFan]

Wow... a lineup without Manny. Ever again. Jeez.

Well, I really don't know much about Bay. One can look at numbers, of course, but I want to see how he looks in AL parks and against AL pitching before I will say "he should bat 3rd" or wherever else in the lineup. Some players just dissolve when they switch leagues; some thrive. Time will tell.

I look for Ortiz to be IBB'd A LOT now. Perhaps stick Pedroia, maybe the hottest bat in the league, behind him?

I was not dismayed by Manny's defense. Sometimes he actually impressed me. He was never in the running for a Gold Glove, of course, but he had learned to play the ball off the wall quite well, and I was impressed with his quick release to the infield. He made some stumblebum plays, of course, and some inexplicable plays. He wasn't the best - but he was better than a lot I've seen.

[Boston Boxer]

Hopefully, this isn't seen as "clutter" amongst the existing Manny-related threads.

Ever since he was acquired in 2001 by the BoSox as a free agent, he's been a very tough part of the lineup. Adding Ortiz first behind him, and eventually i front of him, have made for a very worthy offwnsive force. Added to the various table setters btting cleanup and #2 over those years, almost always guaranteed that all but the most noteworthy of pitchers would have difficulting in both pitching to Boston's lineup, and who, if anyone, would get IBB'd.

With the acquisition of Jason Bay, how do the fans here feel that the lineup and outfield defense will be affected? There are still potent offensive forces in Ortiz, Lowell, Drew, Youkilis and others. However, does Boston's offensive seem nearly as good now as it did then?

Specifically, who bats cleanup? Is that person, and I'm presuming it's Lowell, going to mean that Ortiz gets the same quality pitches, or perhaps IBB'd with the game on the line and a base open?

Astly, what did you folks think of Manny's defense? I remember that around 2005 or 2006 after he was pushed back closer to the Green Monstah, he became much more effective in quickly throwing back balls off the wall. Any idea if Jason Bay will improve upon this?

Many (Manny?) thanks in advance for your replies. : D

i say it will be either Bay-Ortiz or Ortiz-Bay in the lineup. The guy is a major league talent so no sense hidding him in the line up. He was putting up the same numbers as Manny this year, so what the hell. Lowell is in a slump right now, so it does not make sense to bat him 4th.

Manny was an average LF, but really played the wall well. Bay will need to learn that and once he does he will be a significant updrade defensively

[sharrock]

Its hard to figure on what lineup will be settled upon. Its important to note how Ellsbury's slump has upset the lineup as well.

If we assume that Dustin, Youk, and Papi are the first three; many possibilities follow. How the cluster of Lowell, Drew, and Bay are ordered is up for debate with Francona wondering about that himself I'm sure.

I'm more concerned about how the unimproved bullpen will shake out.

The lineup during the upcoming weekend series should be interesting to see.

[Boston Boxer]

Its hard to figure on what lineup will be settled upon. Its important to note how Ellsbury's slump has upset the lineup as well.

If we assume that Dustin, Youk, and Papi are the first three; many possibilities follow. How the cluster of Lowell, Drew, and Bay are ordered is up for debate with Francona wondering about that himself I'm sure.

I'm more concerned about how the unimproved bullpen will shake out.

The lineup during the upcoming weekend series should be interesting to see.

I think you might see some youth promoted to the pen. I would say the line up would be:

Pedroia
Youk
Ortiz
Bay
Drew
Lowell
Tek
Lowrie
Ellsbury/Crisp

[Imgran]

C: Tek
1B: Youk
2B: Pedroia
3B: Lowell
SS: Lowrie
LF: Bay
CF: Ellsbury
RF: Drew

IF Julio Lugo
OF Jeff Corsaletti
1B Sean Casey
C George Kottaras

SP Josh Beckett
SP Daisuke Matsuzaka
SP Jon Lester
SP Tim Wakefield
SP Clay Buchholz

CL Jonathan Papelbon
SU Hideki Okajima
RP Manny Delcarmen
RP Justin Masterson
RP Javier Lopez
RP David Aardsma
RP Chris Smith
\

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Ortiz
Bay
Drew
Youk
Lowell
Lowrie
Tek

[redsoxocd]

I cried the entire ride home when my friends dad told me that manny had been traded. I still dont think that this is a good idea. I'm pissed. Very Very Very pissed

[Jager]

There was a few things that I really liked about Bay. He's better defensively, and give a little time will be perfectly fine at Fenway, but overall he's an upgrade over Manny. All accounts are that he has good range, good instincts, and a good arm. As far as the bat goes, this year he's about equal to Manny. People are talking like we're losing the Manny of 3 or 4 years ago. Manny's not what he once was, and instead we're gettting a 29 year old guy who's coming into his prime, and is about equal right now with Manny, and Fenway should benefit him. I know he's been on the Pirates, so there's the question of how will he do under pressure, but that question is there with any player coming here, and furthermore, Manny would have been gone next year anyways, and we likely would have made a push for either Bay or Halladay in the offseason. I'm excited to see Bay. I've heard he's a good guy that loves the game, respects it, and plays the right way.

One thing I heard on WEEI this morning was one of the guys discussing Bay. They said basically that Bay hasn't been a guy that has wilted against the best competition. In fact, against some of the best pitchers in the NL he has raked. A few are (and these are by memory so they may not be spot on, but they're pretty close): Oswalt in 36 AB's .350's, Sheets in 41 AB's .410's, and Maddux in 28 AB's .367. Those are just the three I remember off the top of my head, but they listed about 10 great pitchers. There's a few great pitchers he struggled against too, but it's at least promising that against some of the best he's been at his best.

[Jager]

C: Tek
1B: Youk
2B: Pedroia
3B: Lowell
SS: Lowrie
LF: Bay
CF: Ellsbury
RF: Drew

IF Julio Lugo
OF Jeff Corsaletti
1B Sean Casey
C George Kottaras

SP Josh Beckett
SP Daisuke Matsuzaka
SP Jon Lester
SP Tim Wakefield
SP Clay Buchholz

CL Jonathan Papelbon
SU Hideki Okajima
RP Manny Delcarmen
RP Justin Masterson
RP Javier Lopez
RP David Aardsma
RP Chris Smith
\

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Ortiz
Bay
Drew
Youk
Lowell
Lowrie
Tek

Imgran, who is Corsaletti, and where did Crisp go in your proposed lineups?? Also, where is Cash, and why is Kottaras up? I agree we might see Kottaras for a few games, but Cash is Wakes catcher. He's done a great job. Kottaras has been a light hitting catcher in the minors the past couple years, so I don't see him catching Wake mid-season.

[Jager]

I cried the entire ride home when my friends dad told me that manny had been traded. I still dont think that this is a good idea. I'm pissed. Very Very Very pissed

Seriously? You cried over Manny leaving? I was relieved to tell you the truth. I was just glad the saga was over, and frankly I didn't want to see what would happen if he wasn't traded. It would have been ugly tomorrow night when Manny was announced, and he very well may have ruined the clubhouse, and taken time off as well. He was a great bat while he was here, he did a decent job in LF, and I'm thankful for our 2 rings, but I'm glad I don't have to hear his garbage anymore. Good luck, and good riddance.

[Westlake]

Imgran, who is Corsaletti, and where did Crisp go in your proposed lineups?? Also, where is Cash, and why is Kottaras up? I agree we might see Kottaras for a few games, but Cash is Wakes catcher. He's done a great job. Kottaras has been a light hitting catcher in the minors the past couple years, so I don't see him catching Wake mid-season.

Corsaletti is an OFer that has played mostly in Portland for the last few years. He's ok, but Van Every would get the call way before him. Van Every has a .908 OPS and 24 HRs so far in AAA.

Imgran just basically made up a lineup he wants, not a realistic one.

[Senor Octobre]

I cried the entire ride home when my friends dad told me that manny had been traded. I still dont think that this is a good idea. I'm pissed. Very Very Very pissed

So seriously, how old are you, like 8?

[Westlake]

So seriously, how old are you, like 8?

Lay off a bit guys, she's like 15. Hell, I felt some sadness over the trade after watching him play for 8 years. He sure made me happy a lot more than sad throughout his time here. I don't know if I ever was more excited from a single AB than his HR off K-Rod last year. If you didn't enjoy watching him hit, you're not human.

[Boston Boxer]

oh the drama