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  • #16
    Originally posted by whosyourpapi
    They signed him for the same reason as Renteria and look what happened to him , he failed expectations and was shipped to Atlanta .
    Had Renteria played better in the field, I think he would have been kept around a little longer. The Sox knew they might get less offensive production than his norm, but he was well below his usual productivity on offense and defense. I'm still a little dismayed that the Sox have jettisoned him so quickly; one might think that Steinbrenner were calling the shots. I have a feeling, however, that Renteria wanted out as much as Theo (and whoever was keeping his chair warm when the move was made) was keen to move him.

    2007 World Series Champions
    The Boston Red Sox

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    • #17
      Renteria's offensive production could have risen at Fenway, but of course it did not and he was disaster on the field. Such a shame, I honestly was not against him return, but since we badly need a lead-off hitter and CF, I'm not too bummed he was dealt for Marte, who in turn was dealt to bring Coco to Boston.

      I agree, Flash. I think Renteria wanted out of Boston. After he left, he tried blaming Fenway Park for his error issues, which was funny since he made 15 errors at Fenway and 15 on the road. In the end, I think he was venting, nothing too serious, but since he was venting, I was pretty sure he wanted out Boston like you said, Flash.

      With that said, Renteria was brought in for his glove and also his offense. Though, do not forget that Renteria was also expensive, unlike Gonzo, who's pretty damn cheap for the Sox. Gonzo being brought in for his defense alone.

      Pedroia might be starting this season, depend on what happen. If the Sox are dead, then Pedroia will mostly be brought up to get MLB expereince instead of being brought up next season at the start. If he's brought up during mid-season, he'll at least get some experience under his belt.

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      • #18
        crisp and trades

        1st I believe the trade for Coco was neccesary but trading away Wells or Clement for a SS is downwright stupid think about it this way they had 7 SP but they traded away Arroyl leaving them with 6 not to mention that if Foulke doesn`t pull through Papelbon might be the closer or reliever leaving them with 5 if they trade clement or wells they only have 4 and while they can live with that by bringing up a starter from the minors it would be unreliableand if their was a serious injury they have 3 experienced Veteran SP plus Shilling's health is questionable. Even though their Starting Pitching looked fantastic in the beginning of Spring Training it is now quite vulnerable they won`t hurt it even more for thhe sake of increasing their offense.
        2009 World Series Champions, The New York Yankees

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        • #19
          Rickey Henderson, the starting pitching went from fantastic with Arroyo to "quite vulnerable" without him? He wasn't even going to be in the rotation to start the season. I realize depth is very important especially when you have pitchers who coud go on the DL like the Red Sox do, but they have the typical setup. 5 man rotation, with a long man/spot starter in the bullpen if needed (Papelbon) and beyond that you have to dig into the minors. This is what most teams do, they don't usually carry 7 potential starters.
          "As I grew up, I knew that as a building (Fenway Park) was on the level of Mount Olympus, the Pyramid at Giza, the nation's capitol, the czar's Winter Palace, and the Louvre — except, of course, that is better than all those inconsequential places." - Bart Giamatti

          You go through The Sporting News of the last 100 years and you will find two things are always true. You never have enough pitchers, and nobody ever made money.
          -Don Fehr

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Rickey_Henderson
            1st I believe the trade for Coco was neccesary but trading away Wells or Clement for a SS is downwright stupid think about it this way they had 7 SP but they traded away Arroyl leaving them with 6 not to mention that if Foulke doesn`t pull through Papelbon might be the closer or reliever leaving them with 5 if they trade clement or wells they only have 4 and while they can live with that by bringing up a starter from the minors it would be unreliableand if their was a serious injury they have 3 experienced Veteran SP plus Shilling's health is questionable. Even though their Starting Pitching looked fantastic in the beginning of Spring Training it is now quite vulnerable they won`t hurt it even more for thhe sake of increasing their offense.
            what are you talking about? Papelbon is not a starter this year. You are getting confusing. The only pitcher we lost was Arroyo, and he was slated for the pen. They are not talking about trading Clement or Wells anymore...that was like 4 month ago. get it together son.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by YOUgodofwalks
              Rickey Henderson, the starting pitching went from fantastic with Arroyo to "quite vulnerable" without him? He wasn't even going to be in the rotation to start the season. I realize depth is very important especially when you have pitchers who coud go on the DL like the Red Sox do, but they have the typical setup. 5 man rotation, with a long man/spot starter in the bullpen if needed (Papelbon) and beyond that you have to dig into the minors. This is what most teams do, they don't usually carry 7 potential starters.
              But I also feel that the starting situation is chancy. The Sox are one bad back, dodgy ankle, bruised heel, torn fingernail, persistent blister or tweaked elbow away from having a really drastically thinned rotation. So what happens if/when Wells back goes out, Beckett's elbow starts to get a ping in it, maybe Schilling's ankle acts up, and Papelbon is put into the rotation? That doesn't do the rotation any harm, but it leaves the 'pen short. So would they call up Hansen, or start trading away prospects for chancy middle-relievers?

              Are we really better off having a backup outfielder with a horrifying strikeout ratio than having yet another proven pitcher at our disposal?
              --Annie
              Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
              Remember Yellowdog
              ABNY

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              • #22
                Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                But I also feel that the starting situation is chancy. The Sox are one bad back, dodgy ankle, bruised heel, torn fingernail, persistent blister or tweaked elbow away from having a really drastically thinned rotation. So what happens if/when Wells back goes out, Beckett's elbow starts to get a ping in it, maybe Schilling's ankle acts up, and Papelbon is put into the rotation? That doesn't do the rotation any harm, but it leaves the 'pen short. So would they call up Hansen, or start trading away prospects for chancy middle-relievers?
                Are you suggesting the team should carry seven starters, just in case someone gets hurt? Teams just don't DO that. Not Boston, not anyone!

                Are we really better off having a backup outfielder with a horrifying strikeout ratio than having yet another proven pitcher at our disposal?
                If Arroyo has peaked (likely) and Pena lives up to even some of his potential, then yes, probably. They traded depth to fill a spot they were thin at.
                Visit my card site at Mike D's Baseball Card Page.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mike D.
                  Are you suggesting the team should carry seven starters, just in case someone gets hurt? Teams just don't DO that. Not Boston, not anyone!



                  If Arroyo has peaked (likely) and Pena lives up to even some of his potential, then yes, probably. They traded depth to fill a spot they were thin at.
                  Here's a theoretical question: Suppose the Sox were carrying a spare outfielder who can hit the ball hard on the rare occasions when he happens to make contact, but is a decent fielder. You had a chance to trade him for a decent pitcher who could either fill a bullpen spot or slip neatly into the rotation, and he comes cheap. Not only is he cheap, but he loves your city and wants to play on your team. Three of your starters are almost old enough to qualify for senior discounts, one is coming off an injury-shortened season, and the remaining starter has a long history of late-season declines. What would you do? Would you find a way to work the trade, to have that insurance?
                  --Annie
                  Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)
                  Remember Yellowdog
                  ABNY

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                    Here's a theoretical question: Suppose the Sox were carrying a spare outfielder who can hit the ball hard on the rare occasions when he happens to make contact, but is a decent fielder. You had a chance to trade him for a decent pitcher who could either fill a bullpen spot or slip neatly into the rotation, and he comes cheap. Not only is he cheap, but he loves your city and wants to play on your team. Three of your starters are almost old enough to qualify for senior discounts, one is coming off an injury-shortened season, and the remaining starter has a long history of late-season declines. What would you do? Would you find a way to work the trade, to have that insurance?
                    Not if:

                    1) I already have a younger, better, cheaper starter who's in my pen.

                    2) Your starting right fielder is injury prone, 32, and in a walk year.

                    3) Nobody wants two of your other starters despite your repeated attempts to move them.

                    I think you're looking at this deal from the persepective of just 2006. The Sox are taking a longer term view. The days of selling the future for the present in Boston are over. Welcome to the days of building for now and the future.

                    You're seeing a backup outfielder who strikes out a lot, Boston is seeing the replacement for Nixon when he leaves as a free agent after this year. They also look at their aging rotation, and see Papelbon and Lester ready to replace Wells and either Schilling or Clement in 2007. Also, between not paying Wells, Nixon, and Arroyo in 2007, and instead paying the cheaper Papelbon, Lester, and Pena, they have some cash in case they need to go out and pick up another arm on the free agent market.
                    Visit my card site at Mike D's Baseball Card Page.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Rickey_Henderson
                      1st I believe the trade for Coco was neccesary but trading away Wells or Clement for a SS is downwright stupid think about it this way they had 7 SP but they traded away Arroyl leaving them with 6 not to mention that if Foulke doesn`t pull through Papelbon might be the closer or reliever leaving them with 5 if they trade clement or wells they only have 4 and while they can live with that by bringing up a starter from the minors it would be unreliableand if their was a serious injury they have 3 experienced Veteran SP plus Shilling's health is questionable. Even though their Starting Pitching looked fantastic in the beginning of Spring Training it is now quite vulnerable they won`t hurt it even more for thhe sake of increasing their offense.
                      Im talkimg about Trading for a SS and an OK Starter SP

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                        Here's a theoretical question: Suppose the Sox were carrying a spare outfielder who can hit the ball hard on the rare occasions when he happens to make contact, but is a decent fielder. You had a chance to trade him for a decent pitcher who could either fill a bullpen spot or slip neatly into the rotation, and he comes cheap. Not only is he cheap, but he loves your city and wants to play on your team. Three of your starters are almost old enough to qualify for senior discounts, one is coming off an injury-shortened season, and the remaining starter has a long history of late-season declines. What would you do? Would you find a way to work the trade, to have that insurance?
                        Its funny , now the Spx are possibly willing to trade Nixon for and INF or a SP since they acquired Pena last week , this is kind of a similar situation like the one you have just written .

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                          But I also feel that the starting situation is chancy. The Sox are one bad back, dodgy ankle, bruised heel, torn fingernail, persistent blister or tweaked elbow away from having a really drastically thinned rotation. So what happens if/when Wells back goes out, Beckett's elbow starts to get a ping in it, maybe Schilling's ankle acts up, and Papelbon is put into the rotation? That doesn't do the rotation any harm, but it leaves the 'pen short. So would they call up Hansen, or start trading away prospects for chancy middle-relievers?

                          Are we really better off having a backup outfielder with a horrifying strikeout ratio than having yet another proven pitcher at our disposal?
                          Annie, what has happened to you??? You were the only one i could count on last year to be positive when I, and others were in a panic. Why are you so down on the Sox? Come on, we want the other Annie back

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by whosyourpapi
                            Its funny , now the Spx are possibly willing to trade Nixon for and INF or a SP since they acquired Pena last week , this is kind of a similar situation like the one you have just written .
                            Where have you heard word of them trading Nixon? I haven't seen anything about that. I see Nixon and Pena platooning this year, and Nixon probably not being resigned.
                            Visit my card site at Mike D's Baseball Card Page.

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                            • #29
                              arroyo

                              Giving up arroyo just got me thinking a lot about all the potential problems or basically the worst case scenario
                              2009 World Series Champions, The New York Yankees

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                exactly

                                Originally posted by VTSoxFan
                                But I also feel that the starting situation is chancy. The Sox are one bad back, dodgy ankle, bruised heel, torn fingernail, persistent blister or tweaked elbow away from having a really drastically thinned rotation. So what happens if/when Wells back goes out, Beckett's elbow starts to get a ping in it, maybe Schilling's ankle acts up, and Papelbon is put into the rotation? That doesn't do the rotation any harm, but it leaves the 'pen short. So would they call up Hansen, or start trading away prospects for chancy middle-relievers?

                                Are we really better off having a backup outfielder with a horrifying strikeout ratio than having yet another proven pitcher at our disposal?
                                Excactly what I was thinking in a shorter and better informed way
                                2009 World Series Champions, The New York Yankees

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