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  • Mariano_Rivera
    replied
    Originally posted by Boston Boxer
    are you serious or just trying to be funny? your posts do not make any sense
    Wasn`t thinking just looked at the numbers I reallly just picked a name out of a hat I have a complicatd and far fetched idea. They try to trade Nixon and use Pena as the regular Right-fielder and midseason they trade Nixon and a prospect to a team with a surplus of SP but weak offense (Brewers for example) I known this is far fetched and it would only happen if the worst case scenario or something similar happens just speculation

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  • Mike D.
    replied
    Originally posted by Evangelion
    In worst case senerio, they're two starters shot and a closer shot. Are you just assume Schilling, Beckett and Foulke are just going to be perfectly ok heading into this series? With their history, you're sure thinking these three will be perfectly ok. I did not even think of Wells during this situation.
    I've given my reasoning for liking the deal, despite the injury risks to the current starters, including why you can't keep 14 pitchers on the roster. I don't know how to say it any better, so I guess we'll just sit here and worry about injuries.

    "Chance". Exactly the point. He has a chance. Arroyo had 20 quality starts last season and he also has the chance to become a very solid starting pitcher. Again, a "chance". Baseball experts? Papelbon comes into the rotation and becomes a stud pitcher. Ok...?
    Are you suggesting we should never move a veteren out because we have a more talented rookie in the wings?

    Because, we had people like Kapler replace Nixon. Consider Nixon's contract up this season, why not let Nixon play this season out and pick up a free agent that's probably better than anything you can trade for, which you have to give a player up for.
    Kapler? He's a part time player at best. So he's not a viable replacement for Nixon.

    And signing a free agent is great...assuming someone is out there after 2006 that they can get for a reasonable price. And of course, if they spend big bucks on a free agent outfield, something else has got to go. They don't have unlimited money.

    04? Cabrera was at SS and he was not an offensive SS, unless you consider a SS that hit around 260.-270. an offensive SS. Millar's production can be replaced by Snow and Youkillis. 3B is the only case you got since Mueller was a very solid overall 3B while Lowell coming off a disaster season in 05.
    Umm...Cabrera was the shortstop in '04. For two months. Before that, it was Nomar, and before Nomar, Pokey as a fill in. But that team was originally built with Nomar at short, a plus offensive player.

    And hey, maybe Youk and Snow will replace the .297 batting average, 18 HR, and 36 doubles Millar had in 2004. I guess they have a CHANCE to do that, but that's not guarentee, is it?

    I'm up in the air on the deal, because Pena a 250. hitter, who strikes out 100 plus times a year and walks 20 plus times. Don't we remember how good he looked in RF last year during his series at Fenway. Still, Pena does hit left handers quite well, is young and if he doesn't totally stink this year, will probably be our starting RF next season when Nixon probably does walk out.
    But Pena is 24, and has a shot at getting better. Arroyo is 29, Nixon 31...they've probably had their best years. The team is taking a calculated risk on the future (Pena and Papelbon). It's the only way to get better.

    That's why I like the deal.

    Depth doesn't work since Arroyo had depth to pen, which I won't be sold on until they, new guys, prove they can pitch at Fenway. Arroyo has manage himself well and proved himself as dependable back-up starter and decent starter when he does start. I like pitching depth oppose to outfield depth, where we could have just use Stern to back-up Nixon.
    They can only carry so many pitchers. Arroyo was the odd man out. If they could have gotten something for Wells, should they not have moved him, you know, so they could have depth?

    Don't try justify this move as smart to reinforce your liking of this deal.
    I have no idea what the above means.

    Red Sox lose a solid long relief, spot starter and decent starter to pitch up a platoon, but young OF. Get one thing and give up another. That's how I see the deal at the moment. Not going to go bonkers over Pena, who's yet to prove much outside swing the bat and striking out and hitting a home run when he does contact.
    Agreed. The Sox traded from a position of strength, starting pitching, to get something they didn't have...a power hitting young outfielder. Will it work out? Who knows. Does the deal make sense. I think it does. I'm more than willing to agree to disagree, though...we all have our opinions.

    Zito for Nixon? Lol, no. Mets wanted him and couldn't get him. The A's would not give up Zito for a decent to medicore level OF with injury problems, who's also in his final year of his contract. It's extremely far fetched.
    I agree...never happen.

    Leave a comment:


  • SoxSon
    replied
    Originally posted by Boston Boxer
    are you serious or just trying to be funny? your posts do not make any sense

    Well, he does say it would have to include another player...h

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  • Boston Boxer
    replied
    Originally posted by Rickey_Henderson
    actually I believe trading away nixon for a SP is a real possibility I believe Barry Zito could be a possible player on the market because of the last year of his contract of course it would have to include someone other than Nixon though this is pretty far fetched
    are you serious or just trying to be funny? your posts do not make any sense

    Leave a comment:


  • Evangelion
    replied
    In worst case senerio, they're two starters shot and a closer shot. Are you just assume Schilling, Beckett and Foulke are just going to be perfectly ok heading into this series? With their history, you're sure thinking these three will be perfectly ok. I did not even think of Wells during this situation.

    "Chance". Exactly the point. He has a chance. Arroyo had 20 quality starts last season and he also has the chance to become a very solid starting pitcher. Again, a "chance". Baseball experts? Papelbon comes into the rotation and becomes a stud pitcher. Ok...?

    Because, we had people like Kapler replace Nixon. Consider Nixon's contract up this season, why not let Nixon play this season out and pick up a free agent that's probably better than anything you can trade for, which you have to give a player up for. 04? Cabrera was at SS and he was not an offensive SS, unless you consider a SS that hit around 260.-270. an offensive SS. Millar's production can be replaced by Snow and Youkillis. 3B is the only case you got since Mueller was a very solid overall 3B while Lowell coming off a disaster season in 05.

    I'm up in the air on the deal, because Pena a 250. hitter, who strikes out 100 plus times a year and walks 20 plus times. Don't we remember how good he looked in RF last year during his series at Fenway. Still, Pena does hit left handers quite well, is young and if he doesn't totally stink this year, will probably be our starting RF next season when Nixon probably does walk out.

    Depth doesn't work since Arroyo had depth to pen, which I won't be sold on until they, new guys, prove they can pitch at Fenway. Arroyo has manage himself well and proved himself as dependable back-up starter and decent starter when he does start. I like pitching depth oppose to outfield depth, where we could have just use Stern to back-up Nixon.

    Don't try justify this move as smart to reinforce your liking of this deal. Red Sox lose a solid long relief, spot starter and decent starter to pitch up a platoon, but young OF. Get one thing and give up another. That's how I see the deal at the moment. Not going to go bonkers over Pena, who's yet to prove much outside swing the bat and striking out and hitting a home run when he does contact.

    Zito for Nixon? Lol, no. Mets wanted him and couldn't get him. The A's would not give up Zito for a decent to medicore level OF with injury problems, who's also in his final year of his contract. It's extremely far fetched.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mariano_Rivera
    replied
    nixon

    actually I believe trading away nixon for a SP is a real possibility I believe Barry Zito could be a possible player on the market because of the last year of his contract of course it would have to include someone other than Nixon though this is pretty far fetched

    Leave a comment:


  • SoxSon
    replied
    Originally posted by VTSoxFan
    Here's a theoretical question: Suppose the Sox were carrying a spare outfielder who can hit the ball hard on the rare occasions when he happens to make contact, but is a decent fielder. You had a chance to trade him for a decent pitcher who could either fill a bullpen spot or slip neatly into the rotation, and he comes cheap. Not only is he cheap, but he loves your city and wants to play on your team. Three of your starters are almost old enough to qualify for senior discounts, one is coming off an injury-shortened season, and the remaining starter has a long history of late-season declines. What would you do? Would you find a way to work the trade, to have that insurance?
    I like this, Annie. You and I both enjoy hiding "between the lines" at times. Plus, you make your point.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike D.
    replied
    Originally posted by Evangelion
    Beckett's blister and shoulder.

    Schilling's ankle.

    Wells' knees.

    Three injury question marks. One start can't cover the spot of three.
    In your worst case senerio, they'd still be a starter short. If all three of the above go down, stick a fork into the Sox, they're done for 2006, whether Arroyo is back or not.

    Better based on limited time he played last year? Do we keep forgetting Arroyo led the Sox in quality starts last season?
    Better on the estimation of pretty much EVERY baseball expert in the country. Papelbon has a chance to be a special pitcher....Arroyo was a 3-5 starter.

    Our offense was still great without Nixon the majority of the time. Plug in an Adam Stern or Willie Harris would be perfectly fine. Nixon does not bring that much offense to the team. Remember he not here during 04 run. It was Kapler most of the season. Sox seem fine without Nixon that year.
    If Nixon's not that good, why not trade for a suitable replacement for him from our starting pitching depth. The 2006 and 2004 Red Sox are very different teams...with less offense from SS and potentially 3b and 1b, they'll need a right fielder who can hit.

    In 2006, Nixon and Pena will platoon, and after that, Pena takes over. I'm amazed how few of my fellow Red Sox fans will look past 2006 to the long-term health of the team.

    In the end, I'm up in the air with the deal at the moment. If Beckett and Schilling on are the DL. I think a lot of you wish we had Arroyo here. It's not being negative, but Schilling is old and his ankle still a question mark until he goes out and proves otherwise. Beckett has had blister problems and has never pitched more than 200 innings a season. Wells is coming off minor surgery on his knee, but keep in mind how old he is.
    And we could have some injuries and need a starter...but as a GM, do you not make moves to improve your team because someone might get hurt? Or do you make your team the best all-around team you can make it, with solid dpeth, and adjust from there? Hindsight is 20-20, but you gotta make the smart moves when you can, and hope for the best.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evangelion
    replied
    1) I already have a younger, better, cheaper starter who's in my pen.
    Beckett's blister and shoulder.

    Schilling's ankle.

    Wells' knees.

    Three injury question marks. One start can't cover the spot of three.

    Better based on limited time he played last year? Do we keep forgetting Arroyo led the Sox in quality starts last season?

    2) Your starting right fielder is injury prone, 32, and in a walk year.
    Our offense was still great without Nixon the majority of the time. Plug in an Adam Stern or Willie Harris would be perfectly fine. Nixon does not bring that much offense to the team. Remember he not here during 04 run. It was Kapler most of the season. Sox seem fine without Nixon that year.

    In the end, I'm up in the air with the deal at the moment. If Beckett and Schilling on are the DL. I think a lot of you wish we had Arroyo here. It's not being negative, but Schilling is old and his ankle still a question mark until he goes out and proves otherwise. Beckett has had blister problems and has never pitched more than 200 innings a season. Wells is coming off minor surgery on his knee, but keep in mind how old he is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mariano_Rivera
    replied
    exactly

    Originally posted by VTSoxFan
    But I also feel that the starting situation is chancy. The Sox are one bad back, dodgy ankle, bruised heel, torn fingernail, persistent blister or tweaked elbow away from having a really drastically thinned rotation. So what happens if/when Wells back goes out, Beckett's elbow starts to get a ping in it, maybe Schilling's ankle acts up, and Papelbon is put into the rotation? That doesn't do the rotation any harm, but it leaves the 'pen short. So would they call up Hansen, or start trading away prospects for chancy middle-relievers?

    Are we really better off having a backup outfielder with a horrifying strikeout ratio than having yet another proven pitcher at our disposal?
    Excactly what I was thinking in a shorter and better informed way

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  • Mariano_Rivera
    replied
    arroyo

    Giving up arroyo just got me thinking a lot about all the potential problems or basically the worst case scenario

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike D.
    replied
    Originally posted by whosyourpapi
    Its funny , now the Spx are possibly willing to trade Nixon for and INF or a SP since they acquired Pena last week , this is kind of a similar situation like the one you have just written .
    Where have you heard word of them trading Nixon? I haven't seen anything about that. I see Nixon and Pena platooning this year, and Nixon probably not being resigned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Boston Boxer
    replied
    Originally posted by VTSoxFan
    But I also feel that the starting situation is chancy. The Sox are one bad back, dodgy ankle, bruised heel, torn fingernail, persistent blister or tweaked elbow away from having a really drastically thinned rotation. So what happens if/when Wells back goes out, Beckett's elbow starts to get a ping in it, maybe Schilling's ankle acts up, and Papelbon is put into the rotation? That doesn't do the rotation any harm, but it leaves the 'pen short. So would they call up Hansen, or start trading away prospects for chancy middle-relievers?

    Are we really better off having a backup outfielder with a horrifying strikeout ratio than having yet another proven pitcher at our disposal?
    Annie, what has happened to you??? You were the only one i could count on last year to be positive when I, and others were in a panic. Why are you so down on the Sox? Come on, we want the other Annie back

    Leave a comment:


  • TheKingofKings
    replied
    Originally posted by VTSoxFan
    Here's a theoretical question: Suppose the Sox were carrying a spare outfielder who can hit the ball hard on the rare occasions when he happens to make contact, but is a decent fielder. You had a chance to trade him for a decent pitcher who could either fill a bullpen spot or slip neatly into the rotation, and he comes cheap. Not only is he cheap, but he loves your city and wants to play on your team. Three of your starters are almost old enough to qualify for senior discounts, one is coming off an injury-shortened season, and the remaining starter has a long history of late-season declines. What would you do? Would you find a way to work the trade, to have that insurance?
    Its funny , now the Spx are possibly willing to trade Nixon for and INF or a SP since they acquired Pena last week , this is kind of a similar situation like the one you have just written .

    Leave a comment:


  • TheKingofKings
    replied
    Originally posted by Rickey_Henderson
    1st I believe the trade for Coco was neccesary but trading away Wells or Clement for a SS is downwright stupid think about it this way they had 7 SP but they traded away Arroyl leaving them with 6 not to mention that if Foulke doesn`t pull through Papelbon might be the closer or reliever leaving them with 5 if they trade clement or wells they only have 4 and while they can live with that by bringing up a starter from the minors it would be unreliableand if their was a serious injury they have 3 experienced Veteran SP plus Shilling's health is questionable. Even though their Starting Pitching looked fantastic in the beginning of Spring Training it is now quite vulnerable they won`t hurt it even more for thhe sake of increasing their offense.
    Im talkimg about Trading for a SS and an OK Starter SP

    Leave a comment:

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