Starting Pitching problems?

[Mariano_Rivera]

They had 7 pitchers and incrediblwe depth at the beginnning of spring Training but now they traded away Arroyo bringing them down to 6 and theirs also talk of trading Clement or Wells for a SS which would make them have 5 also if Foulke does not do well than Papelbon could become the closeralso Shillings health is questionable

[VTSoxFan]

Not only that, but there are probably people laying odds as to what date Wells goes on the DL.

Beckett is certainly not guaranteed for the whole season, either. (Well, of course, no one is, but I have concerns about his injury history.)

[Mariano_Rivera]

blister

Not only that, but there are probably people laying odds as to what date Wells goes on the DL.

Beckett is certainly not guaranteed for the whole season, either. (Well, of course, no one is, but I have concerns about his injury history.)

True but he is a yankee killer unfortunatley for me amd he is very consistent

[pesky6]

They had 7 pitchers and incrediblwe depth at the beginnning of spring Training but now they traded away Arroyo bringing them down to 6 and theirs also talk of trading Clement or Wells for a SS which would make them have 5 also if Foulke does not do well than Papelbon could become the closeralso Shillings health is questionable

hey ricky henderson hows it going im doing alright i think things will just have to play out and see if foulke can come back healthy i think he can how about you and schilling looks like the the schilling of old not new so hopefully things will be ok for us

[Mariano_Rivera]

....

hey ricky henderson hows it going im doing alright i think things will just have to play out and see if foulke can come back healthy i think he can how about you and schilling looks like the the schilling of old not new so hopefully things will be ok for us

Yeah I have`nt whatched many shilling ames

[RedSoxVT92]

If everything goes right and there are no injurys(with becketts blister problems and david wells),Schilling is able to come back, and Clement pitches like he did before he got hit on the head by crawford then we got a wicked good rotation. Just like the whole bosox team. Everthing seems to be a question mark this year.

[Mike D.]

If everything goes right and there are no injurys(with becketts blister problems and david wells),Schilling is able to come back, and Clement pitches like he did before he got hit on the head by crawford then we got a wicked good rotation. Just like the whole bosox team. Everthing seems to be a question mark this year.

Injuries are always a concern, not just with this year and this team. You can't go keeping 7 starters on the staff just in case someone gets hurt.

If one starter goes down, Papelbon steps in, if they lose more than that, they either fill in with someone from AAA or make a move for a low-cost starter somewhere.

[Evangelion]

True but he is a yankee killer unfortunatley for me amd he is very consistent

Based on his 03 WS performance? He's a Yankee killer? You're aware that the Yankees of 06 completely different from the Yankees of 03. He's did beat them down then, but he has not faced them in some time. Beckett no Yankee killer, until he prove he can own them in 3 to 4 starts against them this season, if he remains healthy.

If everything goes right and there are no injurys(with becketts blister problems and david wells),Schilling is able to come back, and Clement pitches like he did before he got hit on the head by crawford then we got a wicked good rotation. Just like the whole bosox team. Everthing seems to be a question mark this year.

Clement was getting rocked a couple of starts before he got hit in the head. Clement has always pitched poorly after the All-Star Break. Getting hit in the head just gave him a valid reason why he stunk during the second half last year.

Injuries are always a concern, not just with this year and this team. You can't go keeping 7 starters on the staff just in case someone gets hurt.

Guh? Not like our bullpen solid. Arroyo and Papelbon being relief pitchers was the plan and not a bad plan. They come into the rotation in case a starter goes down. In Papelbon case, he might become the closer if Foulke continues to be a bust into this season. It's not like they went out of their way to get seven starters. If you have seven starters, it's not a bad plan to keep them.

You don't care we might end up like NYY of last year. NYY was extremely lucky, that they were able to get Chacon off the dump of Coors Field, Small became good out of the blue and Wang stepped up, until he went done. Don't think teams are that lucky when their rotations falls like their rotation did last year.

If one starter goes down, Papelbon steps in, if they lose more than that, they either fill in with someone from AAA or make a move for a low-cost starter somewhere.

An AAA starter is not Arroyo. Arroyo serve a purpose of being in the bullpen. If Papelbon move into the rotation, then Arroy moves into the long relief role alone.

[Mike D.]

Guh? Not like our bullpen solid. Arroyo and Papelbon being relief pitchers was the plan and not a bad plan. They come into the rotation in case a starter goes down. In Papelbon case, he might become the closer if Foulke continues to be a bust into this season. It's not like they went out of their way to get seven starters. If you have seven starters, it's not a bad plan to keep them.

Actually, the plan was ONE of Papelbon or Arroyo being starters, with Wells or Clement being traded. They couldn't trade one of them, so they moved Arroyo.

And I think you underestimate the upgrade they made to the pen. They added Tavarez (3.43 ERA in '05), Riske (3.10), and Seanez (2.69). Add in the holdovers from last year (Fouke, Timlin) and a lefty (DeNardo), and that's 6 pen guys. Teams usually carry 11 or 12 pitchers, and with the 6 starters beside Arroyo, they already had a full house. Guys like Meredith, Hansen, Lester, and Alvarez are going to be in AAA ready to help out if someone goes down.

While it's true in one sense that "you can never have enough pitching", realistically, you can't have more than a dozen pitchers active at once.

You don't care we might end up like NYY of last year. NYY was extremely lucky, that they were able to get Chacon off the dump of Coors Field, Small became good out of the blue and Wang stepped up, until he went done. Don't think teams are that lucky when their rotations falls like their rotation did last year.

Boston had it's share of rotation issues last year, too...every team does, pretty much every year. It's very rare to have a season like the Sox did in 2004, when their top 5 started like 95% of the games.

The best you can do is hope for a healthy group of guys and go with depth, but having seven starting pitchers ready "just in case" just doesn't happen.

An AAA starter is not Arroyo. Arroyo serve a purpose of being in the bullpen. If Papelbon move into the rotation, then Arroy moves into the long relief role alone.

Arroyo had a 4.51 ERA last year...he's solid, but if our top guys went down, he wouldn't be the savior you seem to think he would be. They have guys at AAA who could fill in just fine for a stretch.

[Mariano_Rivera]

disaster

Boston is one disaster away from not competing

[Evangelion]

Underestimate? I'm not going to overestimate this bullpen, which was one of the worst in MLB last year.

Tavarez? Suspend without even throwing a pitch during a regular season. Just imagine him blowing a game against the Yankees and having a melt-down then. You need to take his character into.

Seanez? You're aware he got to face a ton of medicore hitters most of the time since he was on the Padres and we knew how bad the NL West was last season. Also, don't forget where the Padres play. A nice pitcher heaven called Petco Park. Don't we forget he was on the team before for nine games with an ERA of 6.23.

Foulke? A huge question mark.

Lester? Yeah, sure. I think we all know he's not ready for the MLB level yet.

Meredith, Hansen, DiNardo, and Alvarez? All of them unproven and you want to count of these guys to come and start if there's trouble?

We didn't have Josh Beckett in the rotation last year and Wells was not as banged up last season. Schilling a looking better this season, but he's still a question mark heading into this season.

I don't think you get it "Just in case" is more like "Probably going to happen", which is why some people would like to have Arroyo since the chance of two pitchers going down at the same time is extremely likely.

Do you know what quality start are?

Arroyo has started 61 since 04, only behide Wakefield in number of start since that time. He had 20 quality starts last season. He started 35 games last season. ERA was high? If he gave up 9 runs in one inning and one start and gave up a total of 4 in the next five starts, his ERA could be high. Point is, ERA could be quite misleading at time. His 20 quality starts give me a good idea how solid of a starter he was.

[FlashGordon]

Arroyo had a 4.51 ERA last year...he's solid, but if our top guys went down, he wouldn't be the savior you seem to think he would be. They have guys at AAA who could fill in just fine for a stretch.

First, we all know that discussion of Arroyo is academic because he's gone and won't be coming back soon. That said, the point of putting someone like Arroyo in the bullpen wasn't so we could pull a rabbit out of our hat if a starter or two went down. The point was to have someon in house who could fill a slot better than someone from AAA might and without busting the bank the way a mid-season trade for a cellar-dweller's ace might. Having two pitchers to fill that role (Papelbon *and* Arroyo) might seem a bit much, but when you have an injury prone rotation of Schilling, Wells, Clement, and Beckett, it wouldn't have been a bad plan. All four of these guys have had serious injury problems over the last several seasons and if I were a gambling man, I'd wager that at some point this season we'll have at least two of them on the DL at the same time. The salaries of both Papelbon and Arroyo made them attractive to keep around and maybe use as trade-bait when our needs are clearer. If Papelbon is the future, then Arroyo was the insurance card.

I really don't think we'll know what kind of rotation we'll be getting until about the 3rd or 4th time through when all starters have made more than one start. There's a good chance that Schilling and Wells will either break down early or go the distance, missing only one or two starts. Of course the problem is that we really won't know how well Clement and Beckett will hold up down the stretch. Neither has a reputation for being all-season pitchers, but then neither does Pedro Martinez.

[Mike D.]

Underestimate? I'm not going to overestimate this bullpen, which was one of the worst in MLB last year.

And has at least 3 new members.

Tavarez? Suspend without even throwing a pitch during a regular season. Just imagine him blowing a game against the Yankees and having a melt-down then. You need to take his character into.

He's been a successful major league pitchers for a good long time. You'll discount all that because he's a hot head?

Seanez? You're aware he got to face a ton of medicore hitters most of the time since he was on the Padres and we knew how bad the NL West was last season. Also, don't forget where the Padres play. A nice pitcher heaven called Petco Park. Don't we forget he was on the team before for nine games with an ERA of 6.23.

Again, a couple successful years doesn't mean anything, but 9 games 3 years ago does?

Foulke? A huge question mark.

Does he have the potential to get hurt again? Sure...is it a given, as you seem to assume? No. And if he does, they still have pitching depth.

Lester? Yeah, sure. I think we all know he's not ready for the MLB level yet.

He's coming on fast, though...and could be ready at mid-season.

Meredith, Hansen, DiNardo, and Alvarez? All of them unproven and you want to count of these guys to come and start if there's trouble?

Yes, young and unproven...just like everyone else was at one point. Doesn't mean they can't help.

You seem to assume that the Sox are going to lose 2-3 starters and their closer all at once, and that none of the guys they have waiting in the wings will be able to help. Talk about a "perfect storm" of bad things. If all that happens, guess what? It'll be "wait til next year"...just like it was for 86 years.

We didn't have Josh Beckett in the rotation last year and Wells was not as banged up last season. Schilling a looking better this season, but he's still a question mark heading into this season.

I don't think you get it "Just in case" is more like "Probably going to happen", which is why some people would like to have Arroyo since the chance of two pitchers going down at the same time is extremely likely.

Again, the staff is still deep enough to cover an injury or two, just not your worst case senerio. No team can lose three starters and a closer for an extended amount of time and compete. Arroyo wouldn't change that.

Do you know what quality start are?

Arroyo has started 61 since 04, only behide Wakefield in number of start since that time. He had 20 quality starts last season. He started 35 games last season. ERA was high? If he gave up 9 runs in one inning and one start and gave up a total of 4 in the next five starts, his ERA could be high. Point is, ERA could be quite misleading at time. His 20 quality starts give me a good idea how solid of a starter he was.

A quality start is going 6 innings or more and allowing less than 3 runs. He did it 20 times in 32 starts (not 35) last year, and still went 14-10 on a high scoring team. He's a solid guy, good 3-5 starter, but he's not going to replace Schilling, Beckett, Wells, and Foulke.

[Mike D.]

First, we all know that discussion of Arroyo is academic because he's gone and won't be coming back soon. That said, the point of putting someone like Arroyo in the bullpen wasn't so we could pull a rabbit out of our hat if a starter or two went down. The point was to have someon in house who could fill a slot better than someone from AAA might and without busting the bank the way a mid-season trade for a cellar-dweller's ace might. Having two pitchers to fill that role (Papelbon *and* Arroyo) might seem a bit much, but when you have an injury prone rotation of Schilling, Wells, Clement, and Beckett, it wouldn't have been a bad plan. All four of these guys have had serious injury problems over the last several seasons and if I were a gambling man, I'd wager that at some point this season we'll have at least two of them on the DL at the same time. The salaries of both Papelbon and Arroyo made them attractive to keep around and maybe use as trade-bait when our needs are clearer. If Papelbon is the future, then Arroyo was the insurance card.

Having Arroyo and Pabelbon in the pen was never the plan. One of them would be in the rotation if Wells or Clement was traded. Since they couldn't make that trade, they moved Arroyo.

Maybe they should have held onto Arroyo, but that would have meant that someone else probably would have gotten Pena. What's that worth? Who knows...but obviously, they liked what they saw, and felt confident enough about the current pitching depth to make the move. Personally, I like the way the deal sets the team up for the future.

I really don't think we'll know what kind of rotation we'll be getting until about the 3rd or 4th time through when all starters have made more than one start. There's a good chance that Schilling and Wells will either break down early or go the distance, missing only one or two starts. Of course the problem is that we really won't know how well Clement and Beckett will hold up down the stretch. Neither has a reputation for being all-season pitchers, but then neither does Pedro Martinez.

I can't disagree with any of the above...but you can't always protect against the worst case...you need to be prepared for "middle of the road" bad, and do what you can to improve for the future.

[DoubleX]

If Schilling and Beckett can stay healthy, which is a very big if when applied to both of them, the Sox should have a 1-2 punch that will be able to match up favorably with any 1-2 punch in the league. I think Clement has the stuff to be a solid no. 3 guy, but him there are makeup questions, especially after the line drive last year and just a poor second half in general. Wakefield is Wakefield. Him and that effortless knuckleball motion should make it through the year and he'll again post an ERA in the 4-4.5 range. Wells, however, is not long for the Sox. I'm guessing he'll either be traded or wind up on the DL for multiple stints during the season.

Which leaves Papelbon to step-in. I admit, even as a Yankee fan, I'm intrigued to see Papelbon step-in. For both of our franchises, it is extremely rare to see a home-grown pitching stud make it with the big-club. So it's exciting when it does happen. That's what baseball is supposed to be about - finding and developing talent and then giving the fans players to latch on to and identify with for years - players that can be the face of the franchise not just for a couple of seasons, but for an era. That's so rare nowadays. Franchises lack character through the revolving door of free agency. Homegrown talent should give teams stable identities, so I do root for Papelbon to succeed (though I do not believe he is the next Roger Clemens, Tom Seaver, or even Bill Lee at this point).