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  • 2013 manager

    Who will be the manager for 2013? any rumors out yet?

    this decision puts tremendous pressure on the front office. after firing francona and having the valentine disaster they now need to make a good decision. the media, fans and maybe owners won't put up with another bad decision.
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

  • #2
    Originally posted by dominik View Post
    Who will be the manager for 2013? any rumors out yet?

    this decision puts tremendous pressure on the front office. after firing francona and having the valentine disaster they now need to make a good decision. the media, fans and maybe owners won't put up with another bad decision.
    I have a feeling we may not know for a while. I imagine the Front Office being very careful and putting a lot of thought into each candidate.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by RDB_SoxFan View Post
      I have a feeling we may not know for a while. I imagine the Front Office being very careful and putting a lot of thought into each candidate.
      I see this as a Henry, Lucchino, Werner, Cherington disaster. These people set up Valentine to fail. He was no more successful with that team of bad characters than was Francona, by the way.

      Some suggest that the owners are "fan-boys", and thus have no way to look at the Red Sox objectively. I have no idea about Lucchino's role, but I think Cherington is a dullard. Watch his interviews to see what I mean.

      My guess is that it's all over for the Red Sox for years to come.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Joe Barrie View Post
        I see this as a Henry, Lucchino, Werner, Cherington disaster. These people set up Valentine to fail. He was no more successful with that team of bad characters than was Francona, by the way.

        Some suggest that the owners are "fan-boys", and thus have no way to look at the Red Sox objectively. I have no idea about Lucchino's role, but I think Cherington is a dullard. Watch his interviews to see what I mean.

        My guess is that it's all over for the Red Sox for years to come.
        I find it hard to believe the Red Sox front office and ownership suddenly got dumb after years of running a well-respected and winning organization.

        Blaming the GM for a manager he clearly didn't want seems a bit silly, too.

        And Francona's Red Sox won 90 games in 2011 despite the Sept collapse. That's a far cry from the 2012 93-win season.

        I think time will tell on the new GM, but I'm hoping that 2012 proved to ownership that Lucchino belongs nowhere close to baseball ops. It was a power grab by him to push Valentine on the team, and it blew up in his face.
        Visit my card site at Mike D's Baseball Card Page.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mike D. View Post
          I find it hard to believe the Red Sox front office and ownership suddenly got dumb after years of running a well-respected and winning organization.

          Blaming the GM for a manager he clearly didn't want seems a bit silly, too.

          And Francona's Red Sox won 90 games in 2011 despite the Sept collapse. That's a far cry from the 2012 93-win season.

          I think time will tell on the new GM, but I'm hoping that 2012 proved to ownership that Lucchino belongs nowhere close to baseball ops. It was a power grab by him to push Valentine on the team, and it blew up in his face.
          You are likely correct, but who was responsible for not allowing Valentine to name his coaches?

          I don't know what Lucchino's involvement with baseball operations was, but I thought that was his job. The owners seem to have gotten very involved in motorsports and the Liverpool team. These distractions are newer than the Red Sox team's last championships.

          Epstein is now a whipping boy also, but for a time he seemed pretty bright, didn't he?

          Comment


          • #6
            I still recommend Chip Hale.
            The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Joe Barrie View Post
              I see this as a Henry, Lucchino, Werner, Cherington disaster. These people set up Valentine to fail. He was no more successful with that team of bad characters than was Francona, by the way.

              Some suggest that the owners are "fan-boys", and thus have no way to look at the Red Sox objectively. I have no idea about Lucchino's role, but I think Cherington is a dullard. Watch his interviews to see what I mean.

              My guess is that it's all over for the Red Sox for years to come.
              No, it's a Lucchino-disaster. Cherrington so clearly did not want Valentine, but in the GM office for only a few days, he did not stand up to Lucchino. That Lucchino doesn't take more responsibility for the disaster that was 2012 and that his role in baseball ops isn't greatly reduced is incredible. Henry should really step up here.

              As for your guess that it's all over for the Red Sox for years to come, that depends on what you exactly mean by it. The franchise is still run by very smart people (most of them, anyways). It's still one of the biggest markets. I've been saying for about two years now, that the franchise needs to get "back to their roots". That is, as an entire organization, they need to implement a strategy to build from within, and complement the core with smart signings, refuse to overpay.

              Since the new ownership took over, this has become more and more difficult. Other organizations have caught up in the analysis area, and hence fewer market inefficiencies exist to exploit. All teams by now have realized how important the draft is and spend the time needed to analyze it, so that has also become harder to exploit. And finally, we have seen, the dynamics of the FA market change too. All of this makes it harder for the Sox to rebuild while contending. But to suggest that the Sox are doomed for years because the ownership are "fan boys", that is nonsense.
              Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

              Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Joe Barrie View Post
                You are likely correct, but who was responsible for not allowing Valentine to name his coaches?

                I don't know what Lucchino's involvement with baseball operations was, but I thought that was his job. The owners seem to have gotten very involved in motorsports and the Liverpool team. These distractions are newer than the Red Sox team's last championships.

                Epstein is now a whipping boy also, but for a time he seemed pretty bright, didn't he?
                Lucchino is Red Sox president and CEO. He is also a minority owner. His pushing into a bigger involvement into baseball ops have well been documented and culminated in the Theo in a Gorilla costume incident. Lucchino is and old school go with your gut feeling kind of baseball guy, who's had success in the business world but never in the business of baseball.

                In my opinion, his role in baseball ops should be diminished to an absolute minimum! There is a reason it says president and CEO on his business card and not GM or president of baseball ops! If 2012 has not been evidence enough of why then I don't know what would be.

                As for Epstein, of course he is the whipping boy. He is the one not in the organization anymore. Always easier to turn on the guy that isn't around anymore. Also a long tradition in Boston to do so. Theo is still an incredibly smart GM, one of the best out there.

                I agree on that Henry needs to be more involved in the Red Sox and the Sox decisions again (and Lucchino less). Whether the recent decline in involvement oh his part is because of Roush Racing and/or Liverpool, I don't know.
                Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

                Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
                  No, it's a Lucchino-disaster. Cherrington so clearly did not want Valentine, but in the GM office for only a few days, he did not stand up to Lucchino. That Lucchino doesn't take more responsibility for the disaster that was 2012 and that his role in baseball ops isn't greatly reduced is incredible. Henry should really step up here.

                  As for your guess that it's all over for the Red Sox for years to come, that depends on what you exactly mean by it. The franchise is still run by very smart people (most of them, anyways). It's still one of the biggest markets. I've been saying for about two years now, that the franchise needs to get "back to their roots". That is, as an entire organization, they need to implement a strategy to build from within, and complement the core with smart signings, refuse to overpay.

                  Since the new ownership took over, this has become more and more difficult. Other organizations have caught up in the analysis area, and hence fewer market inefficiencies exist to exploit. All teams by now have realized how important the draft is and spend the time needed to analyze it, so that has also become harder to exploit. And finally, we have seen, the dynamics of the FA market change too. All of this makes it harder for the Sox to rebuild while contending. But to suggest that the Sox are doomed for years because the ownership are "fan boys", that is nonsense.
                  I think the 2013 draft is very important for the red sox. they now have a chance to draft higher than usual so they should really exploit that chance and make good decisions. what number will their first round pick be?
                  I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dominik View Post
                    I think the 2013 draft is very important for the red sox. they now have a chance to draft higher than usual so they should really exploit that chance and make good decisions. what number will their first round pick be?
                    I think they'll pick #7 overall. Last time they got a #7 overall pick, I think it turned into Trot Nixon.
                    Visit my card site at Mike D's Baseball Card Page.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mike D. View Post
                      I think they'll pick #7 overall. Last time they got a #7 overall pick, I think it turned into Trot Nixon.
                      That is correct on both accounts. That was in 1993. Other names that have recently been picked at no. 7 include Kershaw, Fielder, Tolowitzki, Markakis etc. Of course the rules of the trade have changed significantly.
                      Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 10-10-2012, 08:12 AM.
                      Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

                      Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dominik View Post
                        I think the 2013 draft is very important for the red sox. they now have a chance to draft higher than usual so they should really exploit that chance and make good decisions. what number will their first round pick be?

                        Although still very early, the consensus seems to be that the 2013 draft class is fairly lousy. I think with the 7th overall pick they should go big (as big as possible). If an Appel or Frazier are around you pick them and get them slot, period. They don't agree you have that same pick again next year in draft class that is expected to be better than the 2013 crop.

                        I think, under the new rules you get to pick at 7, you have to be smart and aggressive. Won't soon get the chance to pick that high again.
                        Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

                        Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Therwil Flyer View Post
                          Although still very early, the consensus seems to be that the 2013 draft class is fairly lousy. I think with the 7th overall pick they should go big (as big as possible). If an Appel or Frazier are around you pick them and get them slot, period. They don't agree you have that same pick again next year in draft class that is expected to be better than the 2013 crop.

                          I think, under the new rules you get to pick at 7, you have to be smart and aggressive. Won't soon get the chance to pick that high again.
                          I agree. even if that draft is lousy a 7th pick this year is certainly better then their usual 23rd pick or so next year
                          I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mike D. View Post
                            I find it hard to believe the Red Sox front office and ownership suddenly got dumb after years of running a well-respected and winning organization.

                            Blaming the GM for a manager he clearly didn't want seems a bit silly, too.

                            And Francona's Red Sox won 90 games in 2011 despite the Sept collapse. That's a far cry from the 2012 93-win season.

                            I think time will tell on the new GM, but I'm hoping that 2012 proved to ownership that Lucchino belongs nowhere close to baseball ops. It was a power grab by him to push Valentine on the team, and it blew up in his face.
                            yes. I would not throw them under the bus so quickly as they made good decisions in the past. however the valentine thing was not the only bad decision, there were some inefficiencies in the team construction. of course the injuries hurt (and can't be calculated-although they should re evaluate the medical and conditioning staff) but the rotation was thin to begin with.

                            maybe other teams have overtaken them in their decision processes and player evaluation which they always were proud of. the front office should certainly analyze their decisions of the last 2 years and draw their conclusions. I don't think they are incompetent but I think some errors were made.
                            I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There are - what a surprise - a ton of names mentioned in the press: Farrell, Bogar, Mills, Hale, Martinez, Wallach, Ausmus, Lovullo, Alomar, Hale, Kapler, Beyeler, and many more (Dumbf*** Cafardo even suggested Joe Torre). Some, as Wallach and Ausmus, have already been confirmed to be interviewed.

                              I think the profile they should look for hasn't changed much from what I suggested last year:
                              - young, energetic, ability to light a fire in players
                              - very high social intellect, ability to form a trusting relationship with players
                              - saberfriendly, modern in-game management style
                              - someone the entire organization, from ownership to FO to players, can stand behind 100%
                              - excellent ability to communicate with players, FO, coaches, etc.
                              - basically the anti-Valentine

                              It's difficult to assess any of this name from the sofa without knowing to much about them, but here's my take:
                              - Farrell, I think, is the frontrunner, mostly because of the 4th point above. He is held in the highest regard by Ownership, the FO and many players on the team, not least of them Jon Lester, Clay Buchholz and Dan Bard (Who are three absolute key pieces to future success). The lack of success and the reports on him out of Toronto are major red flags though. Also, I'm not sure, I'd be willing to trade anything of significant value as compensation.
                              - I think the likes of Varitek, Mueller, Lowell etc are intriguing but, while I don't think that extensive experience is all too important, some experience is crucial at least in the minors.
                              - Beyeler is intriguing but he probably could need some seasoning as a bench coach. Having never played, coached or managed in the majors, I don't think he will get the job. If he does, I'm ok with that.
                              - Everything I read about Tim Wallach seems to suggest that he fits the profile. Certainly one to keep an eye on.
                              - Sandy Alomar Jr and Dave Martinez are names I find intriguing.

                              I think it is absolute key that this process goes through quickly, so that current and prospective players (and their agents) as well as coaches and trainers know whom they are dealing with when deciding whether to join/leave the Red Sox!
                              Last edited by Therwil Flyer; 10-12-2012, 06:17 AM.
                              Watching Derek Jeter make 40 defensive plays and then watching Adam Everett make 40 defensive plays at the same position is sort of like watching video of Barbara Bush dancing at the White House, and then watching Demi Moore dancing in Striptease. (Bill James)

                              Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder. (Keith Law)

                              Comment

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