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Greatest Whitesox Pitcher

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  • Toledo Inquisition
    replied
    The White Sox were a real good team in Red's prime, with two WS appearances. He got a late start in the bigs, and pitched forever into his mid 40's. He was above average when the White Sox started failing in the 1920's, but starting at around 35, he was only starting about 25 games a year. He may have been the Sunday double header guy that Lyons became later. I don't think he would have gotten another 46 wins later in life. Probably would have topped out at 285 or so.

    Lyons - you are correct.

    Leave a comment:


  • Calif_Eagle
    replied
    Originally posted by dominik View Post
    would it be unfair to say that for such a Long tenured Franchise the White sox are relatively weak in SP?

    for a Franchise that exists more than 100 years it must be quite unusual to not have a 300 game winner or at least all time great pitcher (say 80+ WAR).
    If Red Faber or Ted Lyons had played for better Chisox teams, both probably would have won 300 games.
    Last edited by Calif_Eagle; 09-17-2015, 03:34 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Toledo Inquisition
    replied
    Originally posted by dominik View Post
    would it be unfair to say that for such a Long tenured Franchise the White sox are relatively weak in SP?

    for a Franchise that exists more than 100 years it must be quite unusual to not have a 300 game winner or at least all time great pitcher (say 80+ WAR).
    We're weak in hitting and pitching, be honest! Some good fielders and base runners, but our hitting and pitching is lackluster. We've had some lower rung HOFers, but no so many all time legends.

    Leave a comment:


  • dominik
    replied
    would it be unfair to say that for such a Long tenured Franchise the White sox are relatively weak in SP?

    for a Franchise that exists more than 100 years it must be quite unusual to not have a 300 game winner or at least all time great pitcher (say 80+ WAR).

    Leave a comment:


  • Toledo Inquisition
    replied
    Originally posted by Herr28 View Post
    I love ol' Eddie Cicotte. Throw in another knuckler in Wilbur Wood, add a dash of Fed-Ex unis with LaMarr Hoyt, Rich Dotson and lefty Floyd Bannister and I have my rotation.
    Don't forget Britt Burns or Jerry Koosman to round it out!

    Ed Walsh basically was Sandy Koufax - dominating 7 year run, and not much more. He must have had a real tough 1910, going 18 wins, 20 losses, 1.27 ERA (led league). We must have played terrible defense and not hit for him!


    Holy Cow! Our starting rosters batting averages were: 0.222, 0.193, 0.217, 0.174, 0.223, 0.197, 0.243, 0.248!

    That ain't too good when you hit 7 homers as a team! Them's is the hitless wonders! Shano Collins and Lee Tannehill led the club with 10 doubles each!


    Edit: Wow, Bothrops made the same Koufax argument 3 years before me!
    Last edited by Toledo Inquisition; 09-04-2015, 02:59 PM.

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  • Herr28
    replied
    I love ol' Eddie Cicotte. Throw in another knuckler in Wilbur Wood, add a dash of Fed-Ex unis with LaMarr Hoyt, Rich Dotson and lefty Floyd Bannister and I have my rotation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Calif_Eagle
    replied
    Bump of older thread.

    I voted for Walsh & it wasn't particularly close in my mind. But.... (unless you feel his role in the 1919 "Black Sox" World Series throwing disqualifies him, and I totally understand that view, if you do) Eddie Cicotte deserves an honorable mention based on his record with the Chisox as well.

    WL is 156-101, ERA is 2.25, ERA+ is 133, SO 961, BB 533, 183 CGs, 28 Shutouts, 21 saves, 353 games with 258 starts in 9 years with the Sox (I did NOT include his record with other teams but here is a link to his record at Baseball Reference.com )

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...icoted01.shtml

    Leave a comment:


  • chicagowhitesox1173
    replied
    Originally posted by The Commissioner View Post
    Call me old-fashioned when it comes to this, but when a guy has the single best ERA in MLB history, it's difficult to vote against him.

    This would make one darn good fantasy rotation, though!
    Yeah I have to agree, it wasn't a very good poll either but I always found the Whitesox pitchers to be good but not great and I kinda looked at Walsh as a guy who might be a little more even with the rest due to his short career. But your right it's hard to argue against the best era of alltime.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Commissioner
    replied
    Call me old-fashioned when it comes to this, but when a guy has the single best ERA in MLB history, it's difficult to vote against him.

    This would make one darn good fantasy rotation, though!

    Leave a comment:


  • Bothrops Atrox
    replied
    1. Walsh - LQ not-withstanding, a more dominant version of Sandy Koufax
    2. Lyons - epitome of the very, very good every year, but never dominating pitcher. Still a solid HOFer.
    3. Pierce - borderline HOFer
    4. Buehrle - may put up near HOF numbers by the end of his career if he ages well
    5. Faber - 2 great seasons and a long career of ho-hum to solid after that. Not as enamored with him as others are.

    Leave a comment:


  • chicagowhitesox1173
    replied
    I think your right about Walsh, when I made this thread I was trying to figure out how to make a poll and at the time I thought this would be a good poll question. I think Walsh runs away with this though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ben Grimm
    replied
    I don't think there's a question that it's Walsh.

    I was a fan of Buehrle as well. I was impressed with his ability to keep his team in games for the most part and his incredible durability.

    Back in 1993, I got into rotisserie baseball. I started looking into players more and thought that rotation of McDowell, Alvarez, Fernandez and Bere would be one of the best in the game. Hard to believe that, as well as they pitched that year - and were all young, they'd be finished as reliable starters before any turned 30.

    Leave a comment:


  • Toledo Inquisition
    replied
    Ed Walsh for me - what swings it to him for me is how much better his ERA is relative to his competition.

    I've always loved Mark Buehrle. Someday I should look into how many blow out losses he had as a ChiSox. It always seemed that he would have 5 real bad losses in a season (3 innings, 7 runs that sort of outing) that disproportionately affected his ERA. I don't remember another pitcher who had such a distinct blow out pattern; it makes sense when you consider he is a control pitcher without as much pitch dominance. When he didn't have good stuff/control, he was bombed.

    Leave a comment:


  • chicagowhitesox1173
    started a poll Greatest Whitesox Pitcher

    Greatest Whitesox Pitcher

    14
    Ted Lyons
    7.14%
    1
    Red Faber
    0.00%
    0
    Billy Pierce
    0.00%
    0
    Ed Walsh
    92.86%
    13
    Mark Buehrle
    0.00%
    0
    Ted Lyons (R) 21 Seasons
    260-230w/l 3.67era 356cg 4161ip 1121walks 1073k 1.348whip 118era+ 60.7war
    Red Faber (R) 20 Seasons
    254-213w/l 3.15era 273cg 4086ip 1213walks 1471k 1.302whip 119era+ 61.9war
    Billy Pierce (L) 18Seasons
    211-169w/l 3.27era 193cg 3306ip 1178walks 1999k 1.260whip 119era+ 50.0war
    Ed Walsh (R) 14 Seasons
    195-126w/l 1.82era 250cg 2964ip 617walks 1736k 1.000whip 145era+ 59.5war
    Mark Buehrle (L) 13 Seasons
    174-132w/l 3.82era 25cg 2679ip 604walks 1521k 1.273whip 119era+ 48.9war

    I decided to put career stats instead of just Whitsox stats due to they all played majority of careers with Whitesox.
    Last edited by chicagowhitesox1173; 11-25-2012, 07:40 AM.

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