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Tigers belonging in the Hall!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
    They don't meet his extremely high standards. He likes elite i.e. dominant players. Neither really outshone their competition.
    I would actually greatly disagree with that assessment, though. Of his 9 seasons in which he played 80+ games, Greenberg was twice the M.V.P. of the league, and twice more finished third. He led the league in HRs on four occasions and in runs batted in on four occasions. He managed to accomplish this playing against contemporaries in his same league such as Gehrig, DiMaggio, and Ted Williams. If that isn't outshining the competition, then I'm not quite sure what it takes? When he was healthy, and not in the army, he was pretty darn dominant.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by The Commissioner
      I would actually greatly disagree with that assessment, though. Of his 9 seasons in which he played 80+ games, Greenberg was twice the M.V.P. of the league, and twice more finished third. He led the league in HRs on four occasions and in runs batted in on four occasions. He managed to accomplish this playing against contemporaries in his same league such as Gehrig, DiMaggio, and Ted Williams. If that isn't outshining the competition, then I'm not quite sure what it takes? When he was healthy, and not in the army, he was pretty darn dominant.
      Therein lies the rub, Commish. He posted some great numbers, but his position contemporaries, Gehrig and Foxx, did as well, and overall to a greater extent. I'm by no means saying I agree with HDH on this, but I can buy the rationale, in a limited HOF and on the surface of that, the third most career productive first baseman in the league during his time can be, well, lacking comparatively.

      I have great admiration for Greenberg, and do not question his HOF legacy. But for the HOF elitist, I can see where he may fall short.
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      • #18
        Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
        Therein lies the rub, Commish. He posted some great numbers, but his position contemporaries, Gehrig and Foxx, did as well, and overall to a greater extent. I'm by no means saying I agree with HDH on this, but I can buy the rationale, in a limited HOF and on the surface of that, the third most career productive first baseman in the league during his time can be, well, lacking comparatively.

        I have great admiration for Greenberg, and do not question his HOF legacy. But for the HOF elitist, I can see where he may fall short.
        I'd have to go with the commish on this one. Let's not also forget that he missed a chunk of time due to WWII, which surely affected his overall numbers.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by pesky6
          I'd have to go with the commish on this one. Let's not also forget that he missed a chunk of time due to WWII, which surely affected his overall numbers.
          Indeed, pesky, indeed. I'm just saying I understand HDH's rationale for keeping Greenberg out, although being behind Foxx and Gehrig isn't really fair. (I disagree about Terry.) Of course, HDH can explain why he feels that way far better than I can. But he doesn't seem to have the luxury of being able to spend as much time here.
          Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
          Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
          Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
          Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
          Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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          • #20
            I think Alan Trammell should be in and I think Lou Whitaker, at the very least, should still be on the ballot. I also think Bill Freehan deserves serious consideration, and perhaps even Lance Parrish, though I doubt I'd go so far to put either in, especially Parrish.

            As for Tigers in the Hall, I'd probably take out George Kell. The Hall of Fame representation at 3B is so out of whack. I'd also probably leave Newhouser in. His peak years were Koufaxesque, but he was at his best when the league's talent was lowered during World War II. I'd probably also take Jim Bunning out too, but some consider him more of a Phillie than a Tiger.

            So here's who I would have in for the Tigers:

            Ty Cobb
            Hank Greenberg
            Al Kaline
            Charlie Gehringer
            Sam Crawford
            Harry Heilmann
            Alan Trammell

            Strong on the Bubble:
            Hal Newhouser
            Lou Whitaker
            Bill Freehan
            Jack Morris

            Weak on the Bubble:
            Jim Bunning
            Norm Cash
            George Kell
            Lance Parrish
            Bobby Veach
            Mickey Lolich

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            • #21
              I can't effectively argue with any of the premises put forth on this thread. I will say the game has changed mightily over the past century and that should probably be taken into account.

              Of those past Tigers not already in the Hall of Fame, none strike me as being among the all-time elite. I'd probably give the most consideration to Jack Morris for his record, durability, competitiveness, and winning World Series "presence" for three different teams.
              Last edited by moldyoldie; 12-31-2005, 10:48 AM.

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              • #22
                I believe that all the Tigers not in the Hall are out for good reason. Trammell, Morris & Lou were excellent players, not Cooperstown residents.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by HDH
                  The HOF should be a host for all-time elite players, not just the possible all stars of their own generation. Hank Greenberg is near elite but, in addition to Lou Gehrig, Jimmy Foxx, and Bill Terry being better 1B than he was during his tenure, his career was too short and closer to Hal Trosky. Just look at Al Kaline's numbers by season. better than average but, only two seasons considered great. Newhouser had 3 great seasons, two during WWII with diminished competition. Finally, I might reconsider Sam Crawford for the HOF who seemed to get better as he got older but, still: Is he an elite player?
                  The career leader in triples, in an era were the 3b WAS the HR???

                  Uhhh, yea he was very elite and gets snubbed way too often

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                  • #24
                    I agree that Sam Crawford is very underrated. He might very well be the most underrated Tiger, at least with casual fans, along with Harry Heilmann. Most fans could name you Cash and Lolich, but any farther back, and it's just sad.

                    There's so much history with this orginization that most people just fail to realize.
                    I like cranberry sauce.

                    "The Babe was a great ballplayer, sure, but Ty Cobb was even greater. Babe could knock your brains out, but Cobb would drive you crazy." - Tris Speaker

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