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Tigers belonging in the Hall!

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  • Twisted Wicker
    replied
    I agree that Sam Crawford is very underrated. He might very well be the most underrated Tiger, at least with casual fans, along with Harry Heilmann. Most fans could name you Cash and Lolich, but any farther back, and it's just sad.

    There's so much history with this orginization that most people just fail to realize.

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  • Imapotato
    replied
    Originally posted by HDH
    The HOF should be a host for all-time elite players, not just the possible all stars of their own generation. Hank Greenberg is near elite but, in addition to Lou Gehrig, Jimmy Foxx, and Bill Terry being better 1B than he was during his tenure, his career was too short and closer to Hal Trosky. Just look at Al Kaline's numbers by season. better than average but, only two seasons considered great. Newhouser had 3 great seasons, two during WWII with diminished competition. Finally, I might reconsider Sam Crawford for the HOF who seemed to get better as he got older but, still: Is he an elite player?
    The career leader in triples, in an era were the 3b WAS the HR???

    Uhhh, yea he was very elite and gets snubbed way too often

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  • RobertHConner
    replied
    I believe that all the Tigers not in the Hall are out for good reason. Trammell, Morris & Lou were excellent players, not Cooperstown residents.

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  • moldyoldie
    replied
    I can't effectively argue with any of the premises put forth on this thread. I will say the game has changed mightily over the past century and that should probably be taken into account.

    Of those past Tigers not already in the Hall of Fame, none strike me as being among the all-time elite. I'd probably give the most consideration to Jack Morris for his record, durability, competitiveness, and winning World Series "presence" for three different teams.
    Last edited by moldyoldie; 12-31-2005, 10:48 AM.

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  • DoubleX
    replied
    I think Alan Trammell should be in and I think Lou Whitaker, at the very least, should still be on the ballot. I also think Bill Freehan deserves serious consideration, and perhaps even Lance Parrish, though I doubt I'd go so far to put either in, especially Parrish.

    As for Tigers in the Hall, I'd probably take out George Kell. The Hall of Fame representation at 3B is so out of whack. I'd also probably leave Newhouser in. His peak years were Koufaxesque, but he was at his best when the league's talent was lowered during World War II. I'd probably also take Jim Bunning out too, but some consider him more of a Phillie than a Tiger.

    So here's who I would have in for the Tigers:

    Ty Cobb
    Hank Greenberg
    Al Kaline
    Charlie Gehringer
    Sam Crawford
    Harry Heilmann
    Alan Trammell

    Strong on the Bubble:
    Hal Newhouser
    Lou Whitaker
    Bill Freehan
    Jack Morris

    Weak on the Bubble:
    Jim Bunning
    Norm Cash
    George Kell
    Lance Parrish
    Bobby Veach
    Mickey Lolich

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    Originally posted by pesky6
    I'd have to go with the commish on this one. Let's not also forget that he missed a chunk of time due to WWII, which surely affected his overall numbers.
    Indeed, pesky, indeed. I'm just saying I understand HDH's rationale for keeping Greenberg out, although being behind Foxx and Gehrig isn't really fair. (I disagree about Terry.) Of course, HDH can explain why he feels that way far better than I can. But he doesn't seem to have the luxury of being able to spend as much time here.

    Leave a comment:


  • pesky6
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
    Therein lies the rub, Commish. He posted some great numbers, but his position contemporaries, Gehrig and Foxx, did as well, and overall to a greater extent. I'm by no means saying I agree with HDH on this, but I can buy the rationale, in a limited HOF and on the surface of that, the third most career productive first baseman in the league during his time can be, well, lacking comparatively.

    I have great admiration for Greenberg, and do not question his HOF legacy. But for the HOF elitist, I can see where he may fall short.
    I'd have to go with the commish on this one. Let's not also forget that he missed a chunk of time due to WWII, which surely affected his overall numbers.

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  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    Originally posted by The Commissioner
    I would actually greatly disagree with that assessment, though. Of his 9 seasons in which he played 80+ games, Greenberg was twice the M.V.P. of the league, and twice more finished third. He led the league in HRs on four occasions and in runs batted in on four occasions. He managed to accomplish this playing against contemporaries in his same league such as Gehrig, DiMaggio, and Ted Williams. If that isn't outshining the competition, then I'm not quite sure what it takes? When he was healthy, and not in the army, he was pretty darn dominant.
    Therein lies the rub, Commish. He posted some great numbers, but his position contemporaries, Gehrig and Foxx, did as well, and overall to a greater extent. I'm by no means saying I agree with HDH on this, but I can buy the rationale, in a limited HOF and on the surface of that, the third most career productive first baseman in the league during his time can be, well, lacking comparatively.

    I have great admiration for Greenberg, and do not question his HOF legacy. But for the HOF elitist, I can see where he may fall short.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Commissioner
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
    They don't meet his extremely high standards. He likes elite i.e. dominant players. Neither really outshone their competition.
    I would actually greatly disagree with that assessment, though. Of his 9 seasons in which he played 80+ games, Greenberg was twice the M.V.P. of the league, and twice more finished third. He led the league in HRs on four occasions and in runs batted in on four occasions. He managed to accomplish this playing against contemporaries in his same league such as Gehrig, DiMaggio, and Ted Williams. If that isn't outshining the competition, then I'm not quite sure what it takes? When he was healthy, and not in the army, he was pretty darn dominant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    Originally posted by runningshoes53
    I get ya, so in the 10,000 or so players who have stepped foot on a diamond, he would like to see 50 or so in the hall of fame?

    Kinda like a Church where we worship Gods?
    It could be worse. He could be too inclusive, and want guys like Dan Petry and Matt Nokes in. Or, if you're a boxing fan following the boxing hall of fame an hour west, Barry McGuigan.
    Oh wait . . .

    Leave a comment:


  • runningshoes
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
    They don't meet his extremely high standards. He likes elite i.e. dominant players. Neither really outshone their competition.
    I get ya, so in the 10,000 or so players who have stepped foot on a diamond, he would like to see 50 or so in the hall of fame?

    Kinda like a Church where we worship Gods?

    Leave a comment:


  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    Originally posted by runningshoes53
    Am I missing something here?

    Is there another HOF somewhere that these two don't reside in?
    They don't meet his extremely high standards. He likes elite i.e. dominant players. Neither really outshone their competition.

    Leave a comment:


  • runningshoes
    replied
    Originally posted by HDH
    No to Kaline, Greenberg...
    Am I missing something here?

    Is there another HOF somewhere that these two don't reside in?

    Leave a comment:


  • RottenGazebo
    replied
    Originally posted by runningshoes53
    I once put a tiger in the hall and it ate my neighbor.
    OMG! That is funny!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • OldEnglishD
    replied
    Originally posted by HDH
    The HOF should be a host for all-time elite players, not just the possible all stars of their own generation.
    I disagree - IMO the HOF should be a building where fans of baseball can go and get nostalgic, where fans can enjoy baseball stories and the history of the game. A place where they can get another glimpse of their heroes and get to their dad & grandfathers heroes.

    To discount all but the "all-time" elites would, in my mind, lessen the experience of visiting the hall. And really, what would a stricter hall induction benefit ? Fans know who the "elite" are, and no doubt Babe Ruth gets his due more than Al Kaline - as it should be.

    I know there are alot of people who share your viewpoint (as well as mine), and I think a reasonable solution could be just making an "Elite" wing. Would satisfy everyone

    Guess I'm steering off topic though, sorry. LOL

    I would leave all current Hall of Famers in, as well as Trammell.

    Leave a comment:

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