Trying on Jim Leyland's shoes

[tigers527]

Ok there has lots of belly aching for good reason, but what would you do if you could.

Myself, I would put Sheff on the DL and call up Hessman, and feature this line up for the time being.

Granderson CF
Polanco 2B
Guillen DH
Magglio RF
Cabrera 1B
Hessman 3B
Renteria SS
Joyce LF
Pudge C

I think I would move Nate Robertson into the BP when Willis comes back. I think Nate might actually turn into an effective reliever, he can "air" it out and hit mid 90's and has that bulldog attitude (Rod Allen tells me this all the time).

[tigers527]

My other thought would be to put the entire Tigers team on the DL and send them all down for "rehab" starts in Toledo and bring up the MudHens. I bet the MudHens offense would not be shut out as often as these Tigers (7 times and counting).

[Tank]

There's not much to do given that he pretty much has to play the guys he has. However, here's what I would do:

1: Give Sheff his walking papers, play Inge at 3B and have Guillén DH.
2: Find Leo Mazzone and bring him in as pitching coach at damn near any cost.
3: Put Robertson in the bullpen when Willis comes back and have Galarraga take his place in the rotation. If Willis goes 1-3 when he returns put him in the bullpen and put Robertson back in.
4: Play whoever is hot and forget about who feels they should play everyday. If Thames is hitting better than Mags, Thames gets the start until he slumps. That's a rather extreme example, but I think you get the idea. Also, going 0-4 would mean you sit the next game. If you want to play you have to produce.

That's about all I can think of. Like I said, I really don't see many options that he has. He's stuck with the hand he's been dealt and I can't blame solely Leyland for this start. These players aren't one year wonders, they're vets who can play and just aren't getting it done. There is a lot of blame to go around and I feel everyone on the team, from Leyland on down, all share in it.

[Old Sweater]

Don't worry about Leyland. If things get's real rough he'll just hightail it like he did in Denver. Probably has a new batch of grandkids he wants to spend more time with.

I don't expect that to happen no time soon though as the Tigers will be fighting at the top of the AL Central with the Indians again soon.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Don't worry about Leyland. If things get's real rough he'll just hightail it like he did in Denver. Probably has a new batch of grandkids he wants to spend more time with.

I don't expect that to happen no time soon though as the Tigers will be fighting at the top of the AL Central with the Indians again soon.

Entirely different situation. Better ownership who has no intention of shipping everyone off, for one thing. The team's been winning under Leyland outside of this quarter season, and has a future with solid young players and veterans. And it is the job he always wanted. Three things he didn't have in his previous stops.

[tigers527]

Entirely different situation. Better ownership who has no intention of shipping everyone off, for one thing. The team's been winning under Leyland outside of this quarter season, and has a future with solid young players and veterans. And it is the job he always wanted. Three things he didn't have in his previous stops.

The highlighted phrase is generally considered true, but when you look closer the Tigers were 76-26 on August 7th, 2006. From that moment on the Tigers are a combined 124-142.

Not to say that I fear Leyland leaving the team, I do think this team has shown itself rather fragile. From that 40 games above .500 mark in 2006 (Polanco getting hurt), to the 57-36 start in 2007 (Sheffield banging up his shoulder), it seems that the Tigers have a tough time over coming injury. It speaks to the organizations depth and MLB ready players to pick up the slack when injuries occur.

[KCGHOST]

Leyland is like all managers. He's good when the players perform and he is bad when they don't. For all the ballyhoo he has a sub-.500 record for his career. Granted he has a WS ring that he got piloting an underdog Marlin team to a trophy. But he lost one with the young, but heavily favored, Tigers in 2006.

[moldyoldie]

My suggestion is to force this team to play so-called "small ball" -- bunt runners into scoring position with less than two outs, hit-and-run, hit behind the runner, etc. -- all regardless of the inning or who's at bat. (Hell, regardless of situation.) Get this team thinking collectively about fundamentals instead of the long ball. Do this until it hurts!

Pitching and defense? Throw strikes and make the hitters beat you. Unforced walks and mental errors will not be tolerated!

Fans will suffer mightily, but certainly no more than now. At least there'll be a reason to watch this team.

[YankeeFanUK]

Don't worry about Leyland. If things get's real rough he'll just hightail it like he did in Denver. Probably has a new batch of grandkids he wants to spend more time with.

I don't expect that to happen no time soon though as the Tigers will be fighting at the top of the AL Central with the Indians again soon.

do you honestly think so ?...ive been backing the Tigers for a while now but im beggining to think it aint gonna happen for them this year

[Steve Jeltz]

My suggestion is to force this team to play so-called "small ball" -- bunt runners into scoring position with less than two outs, hit-and-run, hit behind the runner, etc. -- all regardless of the inning or who's at bat. (Hell, regardless of situation.) Get this team thinking collectively about fundamentals instead of the long ball. Do this until it hurts!

That's what Leyland did in Pittsburgh in the early 1990's. The leadoff hitter would get on. Jay Bell would bunt the runner to second or third and Andy Van Slyke would get a hit or a sac fly.

[George & Al]

My opinion is that Shef should consider retirement. Not only is he not helping the team on the field, his position as the "guy who has earned the right" seems to be hurting them also. So, he prefers to play outfield. That's great, but I can't believe that they would release a player (granted an under performing one) and shake up the entire lineup to satisfy his wants and needs when he clearly wasn't ready for it. I like Shef, and think he's been a great player, but the reality of it seems that he either needs to call it quits or take a serious amount of additional rehab time.

[slugger33]

I like this lineup:

CF Granderson
2B Polanco
3B Guillen
RF Ordonez
1B Cabrera
SS Renteria
DH Larish
LF Thames
C Inge

I'm a huge Sheffield fan, but he needs to go.

This lineup really needs another left handed bat. I guess Joyce wasn't the answer. Barry Bonds is still available. Even Kenny Lofton might help. I guess we'll just have to see what Larish does.

I think Inge should be the starting cathcer. Pudge is a HoFer, but he just isn't hitting. Inge has more RBIs than Pudge in less at bats.

[2Chance]

Inge has more RBIs than Pudge in less at bats.

IMO Pudge was never brought here for his stick, so if he never even hits his weight I don't really care.

Detroit had a lot of young arms on staff and in the pipeline when we picked him up, and still does, and his role has been to make major league pitchers out of them. It may take some time to judge some of them, but there have been some successes.

[eghost]

Trying on Leyland's shoes

I can certainly understand Leylands' frustration. What strikes me most about the 2008 Tigers is that they appear to be more a collection of players than a team. They accept losses with little or no emotion. A manager can only do so much, the players have to execute. A player needs to step up and challenge the rest of the team.

Leyland does not walk the bases loaded, or get behind most batters, or have to constantly pitch with the other team ahead. Leyland does not routinely swing at every 1st pitch thrown, or pitches out of the strike zone, or fail to make the opposing pitcher throw strikes or multiple pitches. Leyland does not fail to stay mentally in the game and end up being doubled off getting back to base on a fly out because he thought there were 2 outs. Leyland does not attempt a behind the back throw to second base that allows the runner to advance to 3rd and subsequently score, nor does he frequently mishandle routine ground balls and make off the mark throws.

I do blame him for being complacent and allowing this minor league non sense to continue on a Major League team. There can be no sacred cows. If a player does not produce, sit 'em.

I would alter your line up in the following manner. Renteria is an absolute liability defensively. He is no bettter than Guillen at SS and less dependable offensively. I like having Carlos DH, but would put Inge at 3rd ( he wants to play, even if he doesn't hit, he won't botch simple outs defensively). Thames should play every day. I think Rayburn could do well at SS.


Granderson CF
Polanco 2B
Guillen DH
Magglio RF
Cabrera 1B
Thames LF
Rayburn SS
Inge 3B
Pudge C

No matter what is done with the line up, if the players accept under performance, then they will continue to under perform. What Leyland needs to do is play those players that what to play and will not accept anything less than the best from themselves or their teammates.

It's time to rock the boat and shock this team out of it's lethargy. There's still time to salvage this season, but it has to happen now. If they don't make measurable progress by the break, then all bets are off, bring up players from the minors and see what they can do.

As bad as the '03 Tigers were, they played their best every game and it bothered them to lose. They were not good, but I respected that team for doing what they could with the limited tools at their disposal. As for the '08 Team, they are an embarrassment to themselves and the organization, not because they are losing, but because they are not playing to their potential, and worse yet, they don't seem to care.

[street_thug]

Leyland does not walk the bases loaded, or get behind most batters, or have to constantly pitch with the other team ahead. Leyland does not routinely swing at every 1st pitch thrown, or pitches out of the strike zone, or fail to make the opposing pitcher throw strikes or multiple pitches. Leyland does not fail to stay mentally in the game and end up being doubled off getting back to base on a fly out because he thought there were 2 outs. Leyland does not attempt a behind the back throw to second base that allows the runner to advance to 3rd and subsequently score, nor does he frequently mishandle routine ground balls and make off the mark throws.

Sorry, I don't buy this garbage. If a coach is going to take credit for a team's success, then he should be squarely responsible for its failures. If the Tigers were running away with the division and had the best record in the league, Leyland would be mentioned for coach of the year and the GM, would be mentioned for Exec of the year.

This goes to show you that $$ doesn't buy or guarantee championships. As it stands right now, this is just another highly priced team with a collection of talented individuals. If Leyland is as good as advertised, then he will find a way to right the ship.