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  • #31
    Originally posted by DoubleX
    Hellborn,
    Roy Halladay is arguably the best pitcher in the AL.
    I'd take Johan Santana over him.

    Originally posted by DoubleX
    Hellborn,
    Gustavo Chacin is very underrated, he was terrific last year as a rookie.
    If anything, the guy was overrated -- his whip was 1.39! That calls for a higher ERA next season.

    Originally posted by DoubleX
    Hellborn,
    And Ted Lilly is very solid lefty.
    I think he'll bounce back a little, but he struggled a lot last season.
    ~MOE

    Moonlight Graham
    ...one game, no at-bats...


    RisingApple.com

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    • #32
      I'd take Johan Santana over him.
      Hence my use of the word "arguably." Santana was the other pitcher I had in mind. If Halladay wasn't injured last year, the Cy Young was likely his.


      If anything, the guy was overrated -- his whip was 1.39! That calls for a higher ERA next season.
      Very true, but he as a 24 year old rookie, so he could just as easily improve next year.

      I think he'll bounce back a little, but he struggled a lot last season.
      Lilly did struggle last year, but he had some good stretches. I expect him to bounce back as well. He has good stuff (I still wish the Yankees never let him go in the Jeff Weaver deal).

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by SwissRedSoxFan
        Yes I agree. Damon will be a good adition next year and maybe the year after...but after this...12 million for a bad arm which won't get better...

        This IS an overpaid player. Damon himself said he was sad that the Red Sox show so little interest in him, and that he would have staid if etc etc. but I think 4 years are just too much and it isn't worth it.

        With Gonzalez it's the same. He will sign for one year. And that's ok.
        I take it you hate Varitek's contract too?

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        • #34
          Looks like the red sox are falling further from gettin crisp imagine if the blue jays got him imagine wut kinda progress they would have made on the red sox

          Comment


          • #35
            Looks like the BoSox got Coco after all.

            From the front page of MLB.com:

            The Indians have sent outfielder Coco Crisp, reliever David Riske and catcher Josh Bard to Boston for reliever Guillermo Mota, prospects Andy Marte and Kelly Shoppach and cash
            Looks like another interesting year in the AL East.
            Last edited by Ontarioguy; 01-27-2006, 09:05 PM.
            Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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            • #36
              Originally posted by hellborn
              Getting back to your original point, though, about Boston not improving this offseason while the Yanks and Jays got better...IF the Bosox get Crisp and a good defensive shortstop, I think that they're better off as far as position players than last year. Youk has to be better than Millar, and Lowell should be a solid defensive 3B, although his bat is an X factor. If Lowell bombs, Youk can play 3rd and some warm body at first can easily match Millar.
              At best, the Sox position players are the same as last year. Crisp + Gonzalez vs. Damon + Renteria is a wash, if not Damon/Renteria is a tad better. Crisp's RAA ratings in his 150+ games in CF are not promising. The Sox infield looks like an utter disaster to me. Lowell has been awful since the 2004 All-Star break and had an OPS+ of 77 last year. If Youkilis is playing third, then the warm body you have at 1B is JT Snow, whose OPS+ was 88 last year compared to Millar's 100. The defensive upgrade pulls Snow a little closer, but his bat might decline some more, as is common in a lot of 38-year old ball players. Loretta will help if he's healthy, but I predict Varitek to regress a bit off his 2005, and bringing Graffanino back wasn't a great move.

              XX noted the potential pitching problems the Sox staff have, and I'm not enamored with their bullpen at all. Foulke's improvement will be cancelled out some by Timlin's predictable return to form. Seanez lasted 9 games in his first go around in Boston, Tavarez is a headcase, and they lost Myers who was great against lefties. Guys like Delcarmen better be the real deal, or I won't be surprised to see Boston finish dead last in the AL in bullpen ERA. Again.

              Damon is replacing Bernie Williams in CF. Even assuming a poor year offensively for Damon, say 100 OPS+, he's an offensive improvement over Bernie. The improvement we get on the defensive end is astronomical.

              The Jays went 80-82 last year despite the loss of Halladay. They've added Ryan, Burnett, Overbay, and Glaus. Even if 2 of those guys are busts, they're better than last year.
              Last edited by pacewon; 01-27-2006, 08:35 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by pacewon
                At best, the Sox position players are the same as last year. Crisp + Gonzalez vs. Damon + Renteria is a wash, if not Damon/Renteria is a tad better. Crisp's RAA ratings in his 150+ games in CF are not promising. The Sox infield looks like an utter disaster to me. Lowell has been awful since the 2004 All-Star break and had an OPS+ of 77 last year. If Youkilis is playing third, then the warm body you have at 1B is JT Snow, whose OPS+ was 88 last year compared to Millar's 100. The defensive upgrade pulls Snow a little closer, but his bat might decline some more, as is common in a lot of 38-year old ball players. Loretta will help if he's healthy, but I predict Varitek to regress a bit off his 2005, and bringing Graffanino back wasn't a great move.

                XX noted the potential pitching problems the Sox staff have, and I'm not enamored with their bullpen at all. Foulke's improvement will be cancelled out some by Timlin's predictable return to form. Seanez lasted 9 games in his first go around in Boston, Tavarez is a headcase, and they lost Myers who was great against lefties. Guys like Delcarmen better be the real deal, or I won't be surprised to see Boston finish dead last in the AL in bullpen ERA. Again.

                Damon is replacing Bernie Williams in CF. Even assuming a poor year offensively for Damon, say 100 OPS+, he's an offensive improvement over Bernie. The improvement we get on the defensive end is astronomical.

                The Jays went 80-82 last year despite the loss of Halladay. They've added Ryan, Burnett, Overbay, and Glaus. Even if 2 of those guys are busts, they're better than last year.
                Nice post Pace. I'd actually say that the Damon/Renteria combination is a noticeable step up from Crisp/Gonzalez, though Renteria was pretty bad for the Sox last year. He's only 30 and entitlted to an off season like everyone else, I expect him to bounce back and have a good year for the Braves. Gonzalez is pretty close to useless at the plate, but his defense is pretty good.

                You make a good point about the Jays. In addition to adding those names, the Jays also have a number of young players that could step-up this year and contribute. Plus, as you noted, they went almost .500 last year with Halladay gone for half the year, so if Halladay is healthy this year, that's gotta be worth at least a handful of more wins.

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                • #38
                  I have to agree. Very nice post, pacewon.

                  Just keep in mind that Lowell still did win a Gold Glove last year. While he might not help with the bat, he will provide excellent defense for the Red Sox at 3B without a doubt. Lowell could bounce back, but that's a ''If'' going into the season, which is not what a team like to go into the season with an ''If'' at a position.

                  At this point, I can't say Crisp will be better than Damon or the other way around. Damon fade around the end of last season, but I doubt that is nothing to be concern about. Crisp has just got better with each passing season, so the trend might continue. Biggest thing is Crisp need to come close to replace Damon's on base abilities for Boston not to be hurt all that much by Damon's lost. Of course, the lost still hurt since he's on a division rival team.

                  Regardless what happen, unless it's Lugo, the Red Sox have completely down-grade at SS this season from last season.

                  I really do wonder what the Jays will do this season. They man handle the Sox last season, which helps cover ground on a division rival. I think they did well against the Yankees, but I need to check the numbers. Quietly, they finished with a moderate record and this year, on paper, they're a far superior team from last season. We can only wait and see what Toronto will do this season.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Evangelion
                    Just keep in mind that Lowell still did win a Gold Glove last year. While he might not help with the bat, he will provide excellent defense for the Red Sox at 3B without a doubt. Lowell could bounce back, but that's a ''If'' going into the season, which is not what a team like to go into the season with an ''If'' at a position.
                    I expect Lowell to rebound well in Boston and have a nice year, but if does hit like last year, Gold Glove defense is not enough to merit him being in the lineup.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Evangelion
                      I have to agree. Very nice post, pacewon.

                      Just keep in mind that Lowell still did win a Gold Glove last year. While he might not help with the bat, he will provide excellent defense for the Red Sox at 3B without a doubt. Lowell could bounce back, but that's a ''If'' going into the season, which is not what a team like to go into the season with an ''If'' at a position.

                      At this point, I can't say Crisp will be better than Damon or the other way around. Damon fade around the end of last season, but I doubt that is nothing to be concern about. Crisp has just got better with each passing season, so the trend might continue. Biggest thing is Crisp need to come close to replace Damon's on base abilities for Boston not to be hurt all that much by Damon's lost. Of course, the lost still hurt since he's on a division rival team.

                      Regardless what happen, unless it's Lugo, the Red Sox have completely down-grade at SS this season from last season.

                      I really do wonder what the Jays will do this season. They man handle the Sox last season, which helps cover ground on a division rival. I think they did well against the Yankees, but I need to check the numbers. Quietly, they finished with a moderate record and this year, on paper, they're a far superior team from last season. We can only wait and see what Toronto will do this season.
                      I definitely expect Lowell to hit better at Fenway than he did at Pro Player, though I say best case scenario is he equals Bill Mueller.

                      I'm pretty sure the Yanks handled the Jays pretty well in '05 - it was those pesky Devil Rays we couldn't figure out.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by DoubleX
                        Nice post Pace. I'd actually say that the Damon/Renteria combination is a noticeable step up from Crisp/Gonzalez, though Renteria was pretty bad for the Sox last year. He's only 30 and entitlted to an off season like everyone else, I expect him to bounce back and have a good year for the Braves. Gonzalez is pretty close to useless at the plate, but his defense is pretty good.
                        I suppose the question is, step up from what? From last year's production it'll be be awfully hard for Crisp to top Johnny Damon, but not impossible and he does come a lot cheaper. If nothing else, we Red Sox fans won't have anxiety flashes when Coco charges hard into the wall or toward the infield. Be sure to pad up Jeter and Damon.

                        Gonzalez/Renteria? Until the announcement is made this is academic, but I'd still have to say that it won't be that difficult for Gonzalez (or anyone else) to top Renteria's season. I would have liked to give him another year to turn it around, but based solely upon his one stint in a Boston uni, it's hard to argue that Gonzalez would be a step down.

                        2007 World Series Champions
                        The Boston Red Sox

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by pacewon
                          How 'bout you keep this nonsense on the Sox board?

                          Crisp and Alex Gonzalez or whoever your crappy SS is gonna be is equal to Damon/Renteria at best. The Yankees and Blue Jays got better this offseason. The Red Sox still haven't. Have a great time in third place.
                          Dude, like you never go trolling on the Sox board?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by FlashGordon
                            I suppose the question is, step up from what? From last year's production it'll be be awfully hard for Crisp to top Johnny Damon, but not impossible and he does come a lot cheaper. If nothing else, we Red Sox fans won't have anxiety flashes when Coco charges hard into the wall or toward the infield. Be sure to pad up Jeter and Damon.

                            Gonzalez/Renteria? Until the announcement is made this is academic, but I'd still have to say that it won't be that difficult for Gonzalez (or anyone else) to top Renteria's season. I would have liked to give him another year to turn it around, but based solely upon his one stint in a Boston uni, it's hard to argue that Gonzalez would be a step down.
                            I think my point was that despite Renteria's struggles last year, going into '06, I'd rather have Damon/Renteria than Crisp/Gonzalez. So I think we agree.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by pesky6
                              Dude, like you never go trolling on the Sox board?
                              I've never posted any "ha ha's" or anything to the degree of Swiss Fan's nonsense here; it's also comical that you're going to call me out for trolling on the Sox board while you are simultaneously trolling on the Yankees forum. How 'bout you go back to third place where you came from?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by FlashGordon
                                I suppose the question is, step up from what? From last year's production it'll be be awfully hard for Crisp to top Johnny Damon, but not impossible and he does come a lot cheaper. If nothing else, we Red Sox fans won't have anxiety flashes when Coco charges hard into the wall or toward the infield. Be sure to pad up Jeter and Damon.

                                Gonzalez/Renteria? Until the announcement is made this is academic, but I'd still have to say that it won't be that difficult for Gonzalez (or anyone else) to top Renteria's season. I would have liked to give him another year to turn it around, but based solely upon his one stint in a Boston uni, it's hard to argue that Gonzalez would be a step down.
                                It actually probably won't be that tough for Crisp to top Damon. He already beat him in OPS+ last year (119 to 113), and at age 32 I don't see Damon improving much upon that mark. I don't know if Crisp will improve, but at age 26, he certainly could. Damon is still a good defensive CF, however, whereas Crisp's RAA numbers as a CF aren't that promising. That could turn out to be a fluke and he could be a very good CF, but even if it isn't, he's still got a slight offensive advantage on Damon.

                                Renteria vs. Gonzalez is the opposite... Gonzalez's glove will be a big time upgrade; even if he only plays average defense (not tough to replace Renteria's 30 errors). That said, Gonzalez is just downright awful with the bat. Renteria's OPS+ with Boston last year was 91, and I'm sure all would agree that he was pretty lousy at the plate. Gonzalez's career OPS+ is 78, and his career OBP sits below .300 (.291).

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