The Joba Rules Ver. 2.1

[TonyStarks]

There reportedly will be a whole new set of "Joba Rules" in 2008.

The New York Post reported Tuesday that New York Yankees phenom Joba Chamberlain will begin the season as Mariano Rivera's setup man, then be sent down to the minors in June to stretch out his arm so he can be part of New York's rotation for the second half.

According to the Post, the Yankees want to limit the 22-year-old Chamberlain to approximately 140 innings in 2008 and starting him out of the bullpen will help to keep his innings count down.

The Post report states that the Yankees will start Chamberlain in the bullpen, not only to protect his arm but to find his successor as setup man. The newspaper reported that the team will audition several young relievers from a group including Alan Horne, Jose Veras, Edwar Ramirez and Ross Ohlendorf in the sixth and seventh innings in the hope they can replace Chamberlain when he moves into the rotation

[DoubleX]

140 innings seems on the low side to me. I'm afraid the team will be too cautious with Chamberlain and that he'll never develop the kind of conditioning and approach he'll need to be a great starter for 200+ innings.

[Urbanshocker13]

I doubt that he will only pitch 140 innings, I know that they are real tough with the Joba rules but I think they might stretch that especially if they need pitching. I think 140 is to few innings to he is going to have to get ready for a whole lot more innings if he is going to be a starter. Why do they just have these rules with Joba, and not the other young pitchers? Hughes might be the more doniment pitcher so why the care spent to Joba?

[ChrisLDuncan]

You could make the argument that he was rushed to the majors. There is no reason to run his arm into the ground. A guy at RSN.net makes a solid point (Sox fans here, step it up )

http://www.redsoxnation.net/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=26802&view=findpost&p=758798

[nyyfan]

Does Joba agree with it? I can't see him only pitching 140 innnings. I think he can be a starter/set up at the same time.

[NJMetfan4life]

He should be a long man, get his arm ready to pitch that long.

[Imgran]

Such an involved plan is bound to work. Especially when Joba will spend the previous two months making himself invaluable in the bullpen.

IIRC there was an almost identical set of Papelbon Rules. Except I think the innings limit was higher where Pap pitched 140 innings in his last year as a starter.

[The_Leff_Fielder]

I think there's a good chance the rules will change. The Yankees have big questions in their bridge to Mariano. Now they have LaTroy Hawkins, but if Hawkins doesn't work out, the Bombers may choose to keep Joba in the 8th inning.

Thoughts on the new Joba rules from a fantasy perspective: http://blog.benchcoach.com/2008/02/12/joba-roles/

[TonyStarks]

I don't know why they are being so cautious with him.
Let him develop the arm strength...IMO!


For example...look at John Maine. I know they are two different types of pitchers. But Maine went from 40 Innings in 2005 to 90 Innings in 2006 to 191 Innings in 2007. No signs of trouble to this point. And that's a hell of a workload increase, if you ask me.

[ChrisLDuncan]

I don't know why they are being so cautious with him.
Let him develop the arm strength...IMO!


For example...look at John Maine. I know they are two different types of pitchers. But Maine went from 40 Innings in 2005 to 90 Innings in 2006 to 191 Innings in 2007. No signs of trouble to this point. And that's a hell of a workload increase, if you ask me.

He pitched 128 MiLB innings in 2005, and 61 in 2006, so you're off in you're off in this comparison. There is no reason to not be cautions with the kid, if you run John Maine's arm into the ground no big deal, he's mediocre and pitchers of his caliber are largely fungible. However Joba has an elite arm. There isn't a pitcher in the bigs that he doesn't stack up with stuff wise. There is a difference.

[Imgran]

John Maine mediocre? What numbers are you looking at to arrive at that conclusion?? A lot of staffs around baseball don't have a #2 as good as John Maine. Just going by numbers he's a match for Pettitte or Matsuzaka and then a bit.

[TonyStarks]

He pitched 128 MiLB innings in 2005, and 61 in 2006, so you're off in you're off in this comparison. There is no reason to not be cautions with the kid, if you run John Maine's arm into the ground no big deal, he's mediocre and pitchers of his caliber are largely fungible. However Joba has an elite arm. There isn't a pitcher in the bigs that he doesn't stack up with stuff wise. There is a difference.

Calling Maine mediocre, especially last season, seems a bit harsh.

I know there is a difference between Joba and Maine, that goes without saying.
My point was more about that was being taken on.

[Imgran]

Yeah, but CLD is right that you have to count minor league innings pitched. They don't add to his major league rap sheet but they do add to the mileage on his arm in a given year, which is what you're talking about when you talk about innings limits.

His real inning load when you add the minor league numbers:

2005: 168
2006: 151
2007: 191

2007 was a bit aggressive but not insanely so, as it's only about 23 IP higher than his previous career high.

This becomes a real problem when you look at Girardi Victim #1, Anibal Sanchez.

2005 A+/AA: 136
2006 MLB; 114 1/3

Looks pretty reasonable -- except that I intentionally left something out.

2006 AA: 85 2/3

That turns it into this.

2005 A+/AA: 136 IP
2006: AA/MLB: 200 IP

For a guy who already had a history of minor arm problems... is there any wonder Anibal needed TJ?

[ChrisLDuncan]

John Maine mediocre? What numbers are you looking at to arrive at that conclusion?? A lot of staffs around baseball don't have a #2 as good as John Maine. Just going by numbers he's a match for Pettitte or Matsuzaka and then a bit.

Mehish control, not the greatest stuff, got lucky on some balls in play, bad GB rates. Pettitte has better control and a better ERA+, you can say the same for Matsuzaka (and when he has better control than you do, you're in trouble) If you are saying that at this point going forwards you would rather have John Maine than Andy Pettitte you really aren't saying much, Pettitte is 36, and will likely only play for another season or two. If you want Maine over Matsuzaka going forwards go right ahead, take him. In fact I think the Mets and Sox should arrange a trade for the two straight up.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Yeah, but CLD is right that you have to count minor league innings pitched. They don't add to his major league rap sheet but they do add to the mileage on his arm in a given year, which is what you're talking about when you talk about innings limits.

His real inning load when you add the minor league numbers:

2005: 168
2006: 151
2007: 191

2007 was a bit aggressive but not insanely so, as it's only about 23 IP higher than his previous career high.

This becomes a real problem when you look at Girardi Victim #1, Anibal Sanchez.

2005 A+/AA: 136
2006 MLB; 114 1/3

Looks pretty reasonable -- except that I intentionally left something out.

2006 AA: 85 2/3

That turns it into this.

2005 A+/AA: 136 IP
2006: AA/MLB: 200 IP

For a guy who already had a history of minor arm problems... is there any wonder Anibal needed TJ?

I view that as more of the front office's fault than the manager's, the front office gave him Anibal. Manager's have more control over the bullpen than they do the rotation. That said, Giradi deserves some blame. However, I don't feel the Yankee FO will let him do that with his current staff.