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Joba not being in the Pen is a total mistake

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  • #31
    Originally posted by DoubleX View Post

    Horne, Ohlendorf, and Veras all have good stuff and could be setup options (Horne will most likely start the year as a start at AAA). I've read that a lot of other teams are very impressed with Ramirez and his changeup and that he just needs regular work to become consistent in the Majors. Ramirez could end up as the secret weapon in the pen. He did struggle at times in the Majors last year, but he also struck out 31 in just 21 innings, so the potential is there.

    I've read that Bruney has reported in much better shape, so perhaps that's a sign that he's willing to work on things this year. He also has good stuff, just needs command. I've read Albaladejo has good stuff and should have a good chance to make the team. Britton has shown to be solid when given a chance. I think he could have really helped last year, but Torre never seem to warm up on him. Rasner and Karstens could be long-relief options and Karstens is supposedly throwing very well right now. I think Henn has good stuff from the left side and he pitched well early last year, but Torre probably went to him once too often. Heath Phillips, a lefty who the Yankees picked up this offseason looks like a decent prospect (I think he was on BA's 31st team list). Then there are other young arms like Marquez, White, Jackson, Whelan, Cox, and perhaps most importantly, Sanchez, that could impact the bullpen this year.

    In all, I feel fairly confident that the can cobble something decent together. What most of these guys are lacking is experience, but a lot of these guys have good enough stuff.

    Edwar Ramirez:
    You know I'm a big fan of Edwar Ramirez. I like the guy and his make up.
    I just think the the long periods of inactivity hurt him and when Torre trotted him out there, he usually left him in there too long.

    Russ Ohlendorf:
    I like what I saw from the kid. Although I hated the long socks with the Adidas shoes he wore. LOL I liked the kid's makeup and how he was aggressive when on the mound. He should make the team from Day 1.

    Jose Veras:
    I like some things about him, but I'm not completely sold on him. He seemed erratic at times, we already have Bruney.

    Brian Bruney:
    What happened to this guy? He was a horse! He was racking up K's and he was absolutely fearless. Somehow, I think he lost his confidence last season and I blame Torre for it. After Torre neutered him, the guy just seemed lost out there. He wasn't throwing as hard and the K's were coming with any consistency, then his BB's were UP!

    Darrell Rasner:
    I love the guy in the long relief role. The guy was probably the one of the best Starters early on, up until his injury. Joe Torre had some sort of vendetta against the guy and it was never explained why.

    Jeff Karstens:
    I'm so over you! I really liked the guy 2 years ago, but last season it seemed like everytime he was trotted out to the mound he was beaten...like he stole something! IMO, it's time to trade the kid....say to Pittsburgh or Washington where he could have some sort of a decent career.

    Carlos Albaladejo:
    Don't know much about the kid, but I looked over his numbers and there's definately potential there. I just hope he gets to prove himself. I hope he doesn't become this years Chris Britton, meaning he's sent to AAA and buried there even though he's having a good year and the MLB bullpen needs help.


    I gotta say, that picking a bullpen is pretty much a crap shoot. You really never know what your going to get from year to year. There usually are 1 or 2 givens but the rest is pretty much pot luck. I like what the Yanks are doing this year. They're getting younger in the bullpen and not bringing in some rejects and throwing $3M at them. I'd much rather go this way!
    "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

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    • #32
      Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
      Here's a point that I don't think we've really talked about yet - I think the bullpen will automatically be improved by virtue of Torre not managing it. Torre was terrible at managing the bullpen. Going with struggling veterans too frequently, not using promising young arms with enough regularity (and then writing them off when they struggled after not being used for several days), and then riding some of the more reliable arms into the ground (Karsay, Quantrill, Gordon, Proctor). If Farnsworth or Hawkins struggle, I don't think Girardi will trot them out there everyday like Torre would, and I think Girardi will give the young guys a fair shot, instead of reluctantly using them and then writing them of. If you show you can be effective, Girardi will use you, and that's a big departure from Torre, who made his mind up to rely on a few guys, even if they were struggling.

      I think some of these guys will surprise this year. Notable, I believe Ohlendorf, Veras, and Ramirez could play big roles. Then by the All Star break, hopefully Sanchez can join the team, and he could give them that fireballer they need in the setup role.
      Again you have a good point here. But in fact it underlines what I am saying. Start Joba in the pen and if the other young guns will be effective, move Joba to the SR.

      See I am repeating myself again...

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      • #33
        Originally posted by TonyStarks View Post
        I gotta say, that picking a bullpen is pretty much a crap shoot. You really never know what your going to get from year to year. There usually are 1 or 2 givens but the rest is pretty much pot luck. I like what the Yanks are doing this year. They're getting younger in the bullpen and not bringing in some rejects and throwing $3M at them. I'd much rather go this way!
        I agree with your view about a bullpen being a crap shoot. Not for the Yankees, for any MLB team. You'll find consistent relief pitchers remaining effective year after year, but if these effective pitchers had the ability to start and the team rotation was far from set, you would see them in the rotation, just look at the Royals. To my knowledge, their closer, Soria, will be trained to start this season. This leaves the team without a closer and likely they'll throw young players around and see which of them will be effective.

        If Hawkins or a young pitcher turn out to be effective, which is possible, then Joba's dominating the 8th inning would be nice, but what happens if he's replaceable since you have effective relievers able to do the exact same? Starters will always be more valuable than a relief pitcher. Heck, MLB teams even shown where they starters and relief pitchers by the contracts they issue.
        Originally posted by Yankeebiscuitfan View Post
        Again you have a good point here. But in fact it underlines what I am saying. Start Joba in the pen and if the other young guns will be effective, move Joba to the SR.

        See I am repeating myself again...
        Because, that could ruin him moving him in the middle of the season. Also, why pass the chance up to have a very good starting pitcher. Not like starting pitching a Yankee's source of power. If the rotation was all set, go for Joba in bullpen, but I doubt that rotation is set with two players in their later stages of their career in Pettitte and Mussina, one of which was dreadful before a slight burst in the playoff, that being Mussina. Two young pitchers who have pitched well, but far from proven at the moment in Kennedy and Hughes.

        You could bring up that inning limit. Boston sure handle Papelbon well during his first full season as the closer. That same situation could happen to Joba in the pen. While it can happen in the rotation, it could happen with use of Joba being used too often. I just see a injury coming if they follow "Let's keep him in the pen during the season, then move him into the rotation that same season."

        A Joba, Hughes, Kennedy rotating routine would work by keeping all their innings limited and also allow you to asset where each of them are. The Yankees, like people have brought, have many options for the bullpen this season. All these rookies are all unproven, just like Joba was when he came up. Might as well give them a chance. You be surprised that some of them could be effective.

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