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Why is Morgan Ensberg wearing Paul O'Neill's number

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  • Why is Morgan Ensberg wearing Paul O'Neill's number

    Forgive me if this has been answered in a previous thread but WHY have the Yankees reissued Paul O'Neill's #21 to Morgan Ensberg of all people...this better be because they ran out of numbers 60-99 to give out. I only ask because O'Neill is one of my favorite players of all time and figured they would retire his number when they move to the new stadium, and the fact that they haven't used the number since he retired.
    Thanks
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    Last edited by Mattingly85MVP; 03-02-2008, 08:45 AM.
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  • #2
    I figure it's just ST, but it does seem strange.

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/team/...ayer_id=348563

    He's been given that #21 alright, a number which Roger Clemens wouldn't have dared to wear in 1999, since he wasn't exactly Mr Popularity in the Bronx that season, per all the Yankee batters he'd hit as a Red Sox pitcher.

    Players have often changed numbers from their rook season (I think that Mantle wore #6), so this may just be for spring. If he makes the team and still wears #21, then I think it becomes an issue.
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    • #3
      I hope its only for spring training, but why would they even do it, its not like they're using #51 or #6 which will also be retired.
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      • #4
        Because O'Neill's number not retired. The team hasn't took off the books unofficially either it seems since Ensberg is wearing the number. That's why he's wearing it.

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        • #5
          O`Neill's been retired for 6 years. They haven't used bhis number since. He doesn't deserve a retired number (if they retired every player of his caliber they had they wouldn't have any left). I think they`ve waited long enough)
          2009 World Series Champions, The New York Yankees

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          • #6
            Include Guidry with that group too, but leave Donnie out of that discussion...
            It shouldn't have taken this long to reissue 21 if the Yankees had no intention of retiring it. They made you think that they were waiting for the new stadium to open and have a Paul O'Neill day, at least that's what my friends and I thought.
            Last edited by Mattingly85MVP; 03-02-2008, 02:33 PM.
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            • #7
              It really should only be 3,4,5,7,8,16 and eventually 2 and 42
              Last edited by Mattingly85MVP; 03-02-2008, 02:49 PM.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by DoubleX
                I agree, the Yankees have gone too far with retiring numbers already. I definitely would not have reteired Maris, Jackson, and Guidry's numbers, and I'm not sold on Martin, Rizzuto, Munson, and Howard's numbers being retired. If you're going to retire these guys why not Tony Lazzeri, Earle Combs, Lefty Gomez, Allie Reynolds, Willie Randolph, Dave Winfield, Tommy Henrich, and so on?

                I do wonder though how many players of the most recent dynasty will have their numbers retired. You have to figure it will be at least Torre, Jeter, and Rivera. Posada and Bernie could justifiably be retired, perhaps Pettitte as well. I also have a feeling the team would have retired Clemens' number if not for recent events. A-Rod could also end up with his number retired - who knows, in 10 years if the Yankees win a WS or two and A-Rod sets some records in a Yankees uniform, you have to think they'll retire his number.

                There is no way that Pettitte is getting his number retired. Especially if Clemens isn't, and Pettitte has actually admitted using the HGH, but that's almost beside the point. Pettitte just hasn't been great enough. I also don't think Bernie should get his number retired. This argument is like the HOF - once you let in some guys with less than stellar numbers, why not break the floodgates with them?
                :cap:

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                • #9
                  I'm always a little surprised by the love for O'Neill.
                  The guy did have some fine years for the Yanks, and I did like his intensity...but, he wasn't a Yankee for that long, and, he was honestly kind of a crybaby. People talk like it was great that he threw tantrums, but can't a guy be intense without being so childish?
                  "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

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                  • #10
                    He played the game with such passion and people loved him for it, played hurt, was a gritty player, and a "warrior" to quote The Boss. There's a reason why 57,000 serenaded him in his last game at yankee stadium
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                    • #11
                      Posada's number could be retired, but it depends where he falls at the end of his career or whether or not he's consider a Hall of Fame level catcher. Honestly, I never took a look at Posada's current numbers and projected numbers to even make a guess if he's got a shot or no chance in hell of making the Hall of Fame.

                      Benrie Williams is a interesting case for retiring a number, but if Mattingly going to be retired, should Williams?

                      Jeter, Rivera and Torre are locks for their numbers being retired and likely all three to make the Hall of Fame.

                      We won't be around when it happens, but I wonder what happens when the Yankees run out of non-retired numbers to issue to players? They have a good shot at that if they continue to retire numbers at this current pace.

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                      • #12
                        There's a case for Paul O'Neill. I think for all the numbers he put up for those years as a Yankee and walked away with (5) World Series championships, I would say yes.

                        And I agree with Mattingly here, that Don Mattingly, had he been healthy, would have really achieved greatness. It's like Wade Boggs said at his Hall Of Fame Interview that the Yankees '94 team was the best team he ever played on. Can you imagine if that strike had not happened?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DoubleX
                          I agree, the Yankees have gone too far with retiring numbers already. I definitely would not have reteired Maris, Jackson, and Guidry's numbers, and I'm not sold on Martin, Rizzuto, Munson, and Howard's numbers being retired. If you're going to retire these guys why not Tony Lazzeri, Earle Combs, Lefty Gomez, Allie Reynolds, Willie Randolph, Dave Winfield, Tommy Henrich, and so on?

                          I do wonder though how many players of the most recent dynasty will have their numbers retired. You have to figure it will be at least Torre, Jeter, and Rivera. Posada and Bernie could justifiably be retired, perhaps Pettitte as well. I also have a feeling the team would have retired Clemens' number if not for recent events. A-Rod could also end up with his number retired - who knows, in 10 years if the Yankees win a WS or two and A-Rod sets some records in a Yankees uniform, you have to think they'll retire his number.
                          I think Torre, Jeter, Mo and Bernie numbers should definitely be retired. Not Posada or Pettitte tho. For some reason in Pettitte's prime I always thought he got tons of run support, in big spots especially, and that he looked a lot better than he was cause of the offenses (I still love Pettitte, but I think he's a bit overrated at times).

                          I think Paul ONeill's 21 is questionable. I don't have a problem with Ensberg wearing it cause it's not retired and I don't think it will be while Ensberg will be in NY so it doesn't really matter..

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                          • #14
                            More to the point, from looking at that photo...why is Ensberg using Rich Gedman's swing? At least the one from late in his career, after Walt Hriniak ruined him...

                            EDIT...looking at this photo more, I wonder if Ensberg has become a slavish Lau/Hriniak disciple and that explains why he has lost his effectiveness at the plate. Those guys care more about releasing the top hand properly than hitting the ball.
                            Ground balls to the right side are better than HRs anyday, too! Charlie said so!!
                            Last edited by hellborn; 03-03-2008, 01:55 PM.
                            "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Yankeebiscuitfan
                              The lousy era should not be a reason for not retiring Mattingly's number. But like you said: "He falls short"." He was a fan favorite because he was one of the few home grown guys. But that does not make him worthy to retire his number.
                              That all depends on the criteria for a retired number. Whereas the Hall of Fame is all about honoring the most talented/successful players, I've always felt that a team should include the fan opinion in their retired number choices. Donnie Baseball might be the most popular Yankee since Babe Ruth. I'd retire his number if I were in charge.
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