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Why is Morgan Ensberg wearing Paul O'Neill's number

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  • #16
    Originally posted by The_Leff_Fielder View Post
    Donnie Baseball might be the most popular Yankee since Babe Ruth. I'd retire his number if I were in charge.
    Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Phil Rizzuto, Yogi Berra, Whitey Ford, Mickey Mantle, and Thurman Munson say hello.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DoubleX
      I agree, the Yankees have gone too far with retiring numbers already. I definitely would not have reteired Maris, Jackson, and Guidry's numbers, and I'm not sold on Martin, Rizzuto, Munson, and Howard's numbers being retired. If you're going to retire these guys why not Tony Lazzeri, Earle Combs, Lefty Gomez, Allie Reynolds, Willie Randolph, Dave Winfield, Tommy Henrich, and so on?

      I do wonder though how many players of the most recent dynasty will have their numbers retired. You have to figure it will be at least Torre, Jeter, and Rivera. Posada and Bernie could justifiably be retired, perhaps Pettitte as well. I also have a feeling the team would have retired Clemens' number if not for recent events. A-Rod could also end up with his number retired - who knows, in 10 years if the Yankees win a WS or two and A-Rod sets some records in a Yankees uniform, you have to think they'll retire his number.
      I've said it before and I'll repeat myself, but I think that most of those retired numbers you'd mentioned are more symbolic, and some a matter of Big Stein's guilty feelings about how players were treated either by himself or the fans.

      #9, Roger Maris
      His number was likely retired because the Yankee fans booed him mercilessly, since they'd wanted their homegrown superstar Mickey Mantle passing Ruth, not a traded-for player. However, Mantle was in a hospital bed in Sept 1961. Some have said the number could've been retired for Graig Nettles instead.

      #44, Reggie "Mr October" Jackson
      Could've been because he went into the Hall as a Yankee. He's one of the more recent Yankee retired numbers, having been retired in around 2003 or so. If not for those 3 consecutive swats and a candy bar, he'd just be another retired Yankee in the Hall. 5 years as a Yankee gets your number retired? Hmmmmmmmm.

      #49, Ron "Louisiana Lightning" Guidry
      He had one great year, 1978. That was definitely his year, going 25-3, starting the fabled Oct 2, 1978 game. His number being retired around 2004 made it seem like a Hollywood Walk of Fame type of thing, more of an honorable knighting, like when the Queen of England taps you on the shoulder with a sword.

      #1, Billy Martin
      Likely more about mercy, since George fired him 4 times and he quit the last time. Could George have lived with his conscious bothering him had he not done that one favor for Martin, after having badgered someone who was such a perfect victim for his abuse and meddling ways, especially after a death on Christmas 1989?

      #10, Phil "Scooter" Rizzuto
      Likely more about his overall popularity. The Yanks have never had any truly great shortstops, and the best one they've had plays 3B. Still, has there ever been a better Yankee broadcasting team in recent years than Scooter yelling "Holy Cow" and Bill White? Make sure you eat your cannolis, buddy!

      #15, Thurman Munson
      El Capitan's very unfortunate death, I can't argue with. George, for all his faults, has been huge in terms of insuring that players' families were "taken care of" when they were gone. If anything, that was one note of distinction for him, and when one of his players dies so tragically, I won't even argue whether it's warranted or not. I'd just give it to him.

      #32, Elston Howard
      Likely to mark the fact that Howard was the first black Yankee. The late Ellie's daughter has sung the US National Anthem at games a few times, so his memory is still there.

      I agree about the others, but after the whole "shopping numbers" thing with Winfield's #31 between the Yanks and Padres, then the whole Howard Spira thing, I tend to think that unless Winfield went into Cooperstown with a Yankee cap on, no way would #31 be retired. I guess that's why former setup Steve Karsay wore #31, but Mike Piazza had to abandon #31 when he went to San Diego.

      Speaking of Tommy Henrich, a friend of mine told me a few years ago that for many years, he's been the last ex-teammate of one Lou Gehrig (this was the History Mod of another board). Yup, still having Yankee fans rolling on the floor and keeping the autograph lines bursting at the sides about the good ol' times.
      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
      Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
      THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
      Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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      • #18
        No.

        The only player that should have his number retired that hasn't is at SS right now. And maybe Rodriguez when he hangs 'em up.
        Originally posted by Domenic
        The Yankees should see if Yogi Berra can still get behind the plate - he has ten World Series rings... he must be worth forty or fifty million a season.

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        • #19
          I always thought they would retire his number when the move happened. Maybe they don't intend on keeping Ensberg that long.....
          MySpace Codes

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mattingly
            Well, if you don't happen to like me, then so be it!

            Anyway, let me piggyback a serious question onto this post:

            Should Bernie's #51 be retired down the road?
            I think that this makes a lot of sense...homegrown player, one of the best from a dominating series of teams, classy guy who was well respected.
            I guess I could see it being delayed if he comes back to be a bit player with another team, which seems unlikely, or if the "bad blood" from the way his Yankee days ended is still there.
            I'm a Bosox fan, but Bernie was one of my favorites.
            "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

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            • #21
              If you take fan's opinions into consideration, most of your numbers will be retired. There's a reason the Red Sox and other teams for that matter don't have a long list of retired numbers like the Yankees. How's a player who was on your team for five years managed to have his number retired? No matter if he was involved in one of the most historic moments in Yankee and MLB history.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Mattingly View Post
                Speaking of Tommy Henrich, a friend of mine told me a few years ago that for many years, he's been the last ex-teammate of one Lou Gehrig (this was the History Mod of another board). Yup, still having Yankee fans rolling on the floor and keeping the autograph lines bursting at the sides about the good ol' times.
                Henrich is still alive, and I don't know what kind of shape he's in (he's 95), but he used to appear in lots of documentaries sharing stories, so I never really understood why the Yankees in recent years haven't embraced him more. He's the last link to a great period in Yankee history, having first appeared with the team in 1937. And it's not like he wasn't a good player - a 5 time All Star, despite missing three years of his prime to WWII, and he finished with a 132 OPS+.

                I'd love to see a YES special or just a piece interviewing Tommy Henrich talking about his days with the teams. In general, I think YES has done a pretty crappy job utilizing the great history the Yankees had. You get a few classic games from the late 70s (the Chambliss game, Reggie's 3 homer game, and Guidry's 19 strikeouts), but almost all the classic games are from the last 5-10 years, and somehow Hideki Matsui has a Yankeeography but Bill Dickey doesn't. It's a travesty, IMO, how bad YES has been with the Yankees history, it's inexcusable. I actually think SNY has done a better job with the Mets history - the other night I watched Game 5 of the 1969 World Series on SNY, the YES Network never goes that far back, despite the wealth of great games in Yankees history.
                Last edited by DoubleX; 03-04-2008, 06:58 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Westlake View Post
                  No.

                  The only player that should have his number retired that hasn't is at SS right now. And maybe Rodriguez when he hangs 'em up.
                  I`d put Rivera in that category as well.
                  2009 World Series Champions, The New York Yankees

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                    Henrich is still alive, and I don't know what kind of shape he's in (he's 95), but he used to appear in lots of documentaries sharing stories, so I never really understood why the Yankees in recent years haven't embraced him more. He's the last link to a great period in Yankee history, having first appeared with the team in 1937. And it's not like he wasn't a good player - a 5 time All Star, despite missing three years of his prime to WWII, and he finished with a 132 OPS+.

                    I'd love to see a YES special or just a piece interviewing Tommy Henrich talking about his days with the teams. In general, I think YES has done a pretty crappy job utilizing the great history the Yankees had. You get a few classic games from the late 70s (the Chambliss game, Reggie's 3 homer game, and Guidry's 19 strikeouts), but almost all the classic games are from the last 5-10 years, and somehow Hideki Matsui has a Yankeeography but Bill Dickey doesn't. It's a travesty, IMO, how bad YES has been with the Yankees history, it's inexcusable. I actually think SNY has done a better job with the Mets history - the other night I watched Game 5 of the 1969 World Series on SNY, the YES Network never goes that far back, despite the wealth of great games in Yankees history.
                    I kinda figured this was where you'd gotten the idea for the other thread re YES and Henrich.

                    Anyway, my friend's discussion of Henrich was from about 2004, so he was in his early 90s back then. Still, he got the autograph of an authentic jersey with Tommy's number on it, and he'd loved the endless mentions of how things were back then.

                    Where were those documentaries aired on? ESPN Classic? Ken Burns' baseball documentaries?

                    Once DiMaggio passed on around 1999 (I'd seen him at the 1998 parade), I think that Henrich became the last of Gehrig's ex-teammates, at least amongst those who were notable.

                    I think you'd need a lot of research on this, since those were from many years ago. However, he played all of his games as a Yankee, despite being a Cleveland amateur draftee. His career was from 1937-50, so perhaps Yogi or Whitey could add something to this, since they saw his later years and likely know him after they'd all retired.

                    http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/henrito01.shtml

                    Kudos to Bill Dickey, who mentored Yogi on catching, and spent all of his MLB time behind the backstop, unlike Yogi and Bench.

                    I'm not sure how much available footage would be needed for the older games. I think that for some games (Pine Tar Game, that no-hitter in 1984 or so), the Yanks used video footage from WOR-11, but used the audio from the radio feed. I don't know how easy it would be to obtain some of the entire games from the early '60s or late '70s when they were winning.
                    Last edited by Mattingly; 03-04-2008, 06:45 PM.
                    Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                    Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                    THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                    Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mariano_Rivera View Post
                      I`d put Rivera in that category as well.
                      They'd need a double retirement for Jackie Robinson. I'm still wondering how the Yanks would handle that whole thing.
                      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                      Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                      THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                      Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                        Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Phil Rizzuto, Yogi Berra, Whitey Ford, Mickey Mantle, and Thurman Munson say hello.
                        I stand by what I said.
                        --------------------
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                        Sportswriter Mark Leff blabs about baseball

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                          ...

                          I'd love to see a YES special or just a piece interviewing Tommy Henrich talking about his days with the teams. ....
                          I'd pay $200 to sit in a room and just listen to somebody like Henrich tell stories for an hour. I just read in the Boston Globe that Billy Werber is still alive in senior housing somewhere, and still telling great stories. I had just read his story about Foxx beating him in a sprint a few months ago. These guys are living treasures, and I loved that the Globe looked Werber up and wrote a substantial article about him. I guess that it's possible that Henrich might be beyond being a good interview at his age, though. I read Henrich's book "Five O'Clock Lightning" years ago, but it honestly didn't have enough readable filler in between the stories.

                          I would imagine that YES must feel that there isn't enough general interest in the old ballplayers and their times to concentrate on them in their documentaries...I know that we'd love that stuff, but maybe they have good reason to believe that their ratings would be lousy for it.
                          "I throw him four wide ones, then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on pitching to Musial

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by hellborn View Post
                            I would imagine that YES must feel that there isn't enough general interest in the old ballplayers and their times to concentrate on them in their documentaries...I know that we'd love that stuff, but maybe they have good reason to believe that their ratings would be lousy for it.
                            That's a good point, but I doubt the network is bringing in great ratings with all its New Jersey Nets programming and watching crappy college football and basketball games, or five and half hours of Mike and the Mad Dog's radio show every day (it's on radio if you're interested, there's nothing different other than you're watching them sit there and talk).

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Evangelion View Post
                              If you take fan's opinions into consideration, most of your numbers will be retired. There's a reason the Red Sox and other teams for that matter don't have a long list of retired numbers like the Yankees. How's a player who was on your team for five years managed to have his number retired? No matter if he was involved in one of the most historic moments in Yankee and MLB history.
                              Its a proven fact that successful teams have many numbers retired...Canadians- 24 Stanley Cups- 14 retired numbers, Celtics- 16 championships, 19 numbers retired, football teams that have won 5 super bowls honor their great players differently, Cowboys use a "ring of honor" and inactivate certain numbers, the Steelers unofficially retiring numbers, and 49ers have 10 retired...The Cardinals with the second most championships (10) have 9 #s retired...so its not unusual to see the Yankees have a lot of numbers honored.
                              sigpic

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Mattingly85MVP View Post
                                Its a proven fact that successful teams have many numbers retired...Canadians- 24 Stanley Cups- 14 retired numbers, Celtics- 16 championships, 19 numbers retired, football teams that have won 5 super bowls honor their great players differently, Cowboys use a "ring of honor" and inactivate certain numbers, the Steelers unofficially retiring numbers, and 49ers have 10 retired...The Cardinals with the second most championships (10) have 9 #s retired...so its not unusual to see the Yankees have a lot of numbers honored.
                                Even retiring a number of a player who was on their team for five seasons?

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