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Why is Morgan Ensberg wearing Paul O'Neill's number

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  • #46
    Originally posted by NY16CATCHER View Post
    Munson is a legend and your disrespect is galling. He was so highly regarded that he was named Captain, succeeding Lou Gehrig, in that role. He was one of, if not the best, catcher of his generation and a leader on and off the field. His grit, determination, hustle and skill were unmatched.

    To attempt to put Cory Lidle in the same discussion as Thurman Munson is simply ridiculous.
    100% agree.

    They have cheapened the honor by retiring 1, 9 & 44, BUT - Thurman Munson was the leader of the franchise's return to glory, the first team captian since Lou Gehrig and, oh yea, one of the greatest players to ever wear the pinstripes. His death devestated the city & ended an era.

    NY16 - you're right on and, thankfully, understand this basic baseball, as well as Yankee, history.

    Comment


    • #47
      Munson dieing would be like if Jeter or Posada died during the season, besides being the the captain, he was the heart of the Yankees in the 70's. Also depending on where you rank Posada he is the best Yankee catcher who didn't wear number 8! He wasn't just a player who died during the season, he was a special player. He was the best backstop in the AL during the 70's ( you might argue Fisk) Munson is one number that should be on the wall, and maybe in the hall.
      39 AL Pennants • 26 World Series titles
      2003 • 2001 • 2000 • 1999•1998 • 1996 •1981 • 1978 •1977 • 1976 • 1964 • 1963 •1962 • 1961 • 1960 •1958•1957 • 1956 • 1955 • 1953 • 1952 • 1951 • 1950 • 1949•1947 • 1943 • 1942 • 1941•1939 • 1938 • 1937 • 1936•1932 • 1928 • 1927 • 1926 •1923 • 1922 • 1921

      :bowdown:1•3•4•5•7•8•8•9•10•15•16•23•32•37•42•44•49 & soon 2•6•20•21•51•42

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Urbanshocker13 View Post
        Munson dieing would be like if Jeter or Posada died during the season, besides being the the captain, he was the heart of the Yankees in the 70's. He wasn't just a player who died during the season, he was a special player. He was the best backstop in the AL during the 70's ( you might argue Fisk) Munson is one number that should be on the wall, and maybe in the hall.
        Well said.
        It's hard to imagine anyone with even the most casual knowledge of the game could belittle an icon like the immortal Munson by making lite of his sad, tragic passing. Mendoza, Lidle ? That's just not rite.
        Few players have impacted NY baseball as Munson did.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by NY16CATCHER View Post
          Munson is a legend and your disrespect is galling. He was so highly regarded that he was named Captain, succeeding Lou Gehrig, in that role. He was one of, if not the best, catcher of his generation and a leader on and off the field. His grit, determination, hustle and skill were unmatched.
          I think Carlton Fisk and Johnny Bench would like a word with you.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by JerseySoxFan19 View Post
            I think Carlton Fisk and Johnny Bench would like a word with you.
            Bench was the greatest Catcher of his generation maybe all time, You could argue that Munson during the 70's was better then Fisk, Fisk had great years in the 80's which ranks him higher then Munson but when Thurman was still alive they where awful close.
            39 AL Pennants • 26 World Series titles
            2003 • 2001 • 2000 • 1999•1998 • 1996 •1981 • 1978 •1977 • 1976 • 1964 • 1963 •1962 • 1961 • 1960 •1958•1957 • 1956 • 1955 • 1953 • 1952 • 1951 • 1950 • 1949•1947 • 1943 • 1942 • 1941•1939 • 1938 • 1937 • 1936•1932 • 1928 • 1927 • 1926 •1923 • 1922 • 1921

            :bowdown:1•3•4•5•7•8•8•9•10•15•16•23•32•37•42•44•49 & soon 2•6•20•21•51•42

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by JerseySoxFan19 View Post

              I think Carlton Fisk and Johnny Bench would like a word with you.

              Just Bench. Fisk was alright, but ... well, just Bench, we'll leave it at that !

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
                Just Bench. Fisk was alright, but ... well, just Bench, we'll leave it at that !
                Oh c'mon man, Fisk was great and he could beat up Lou Pienella which is something every ump wants to do these days. Fisk was at least tied with Munson. Too each his own.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by JerseySoxFan19 View Post
                  Oh c'mon man, Fisk was great and he could beat up Lou Pienella which is something every ump wants to do these days.
                  .....

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by JerseySoxFan19 View Post
                    Oh c'mon man, Fisk was great and he could beat up Lou Pienella which is something every ump wants to do these days. Fisk was at least tied with Munson. Too each his own.
                    You never seem to dissapoint Jerseysoxfan!
                    39 AL Pennants • 26 World Series titles
                    2003 • 2001 • 2000 • 1999•1998 • 1996 •1981 • 1978 •1977 • 1976 • 1964 • 1963 •1962 • 1961 • 1960 •1958•1957 • 1956 • 1955 • 1953 • 1952 • 1951 • 1950 • 1949•1947 • 1943 • 1942 • 1941•1939 • 1938 • 1937 • 1936•1932 • 1928 • 1927 • 1926 •1923 • 1922 • 1921

                    :bowdown:1•3•4•5•7•8•8•9•10•15•16•23•32•37•42•44•49 & soon 2•6•20•21•51•42

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Alright what did I do?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by JerseySoxFan19 View Post
                        Alright what did I do?
                        Nothing just being you!
                        39 AL Pennants • 26 World Series titles
                        2003 • 2001 • 2000 • 1999•1998 • 1996 •1981 • 1978 •1977 • 1976 • 1964 • 1963 •1962 • 1961 • 1960 •1958•1957 • 1956 • 1955 • 1953 • 1952 • 1951 • 1950 • 1949•1947 • 1943 • 1942 • 1941•1939 • 1938 • 1937 • 1936•1932 • 1928 • 1927 • 1926 •1923 • 1922 • 1921

                        :bowdown:1•3•4•5•7•8•8•9•10•15•16•23•32•37•42•44•49 & soon 2•6•20•21•51•42

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
                          Just Bench. Fisk was alright, but ... well, just Bench, we'll leave it at that !
                          I don't know. Bench is definitely in a higher class (like the best catcher of all time class), but it's pretty close between Fisk and Munson when you're talking just about the 70s. I'd probably give the edge to Munson because while both could hit, Munson had a good edge defensively and did win an MVP. However, Fisk moves pretty far ahead of Munson in career value as Fisk had tremendous longevity for a catcher.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Fisks post Redsox days puts him ahead of Thurman, Munson couldn't really help not having a long carrer but because his injuries he probally didn't have that long anyway, but during the 70's I think there is a slight edge to Munson. (I think we are just saying the samething over & over again)
                            39 AL Pennants • 26 World Series titles
                            2003 • 2001 • 2000 • 1999•1998 • 1996 •1981 • 1978 •1977 • 1976 • 1964 • 1963 •1962 • 1961 • 1960 •1958•1957 • 1956 • 1955 • 1953 • 1952 • 1951 • 1950 • 1949•1947 • 1943 • 1942 • 1941•1939 • 1938 • 1937 • 1936•1932 • 1928 • 1927 • 1926 •1923 • 1922 • 1921

                            :bowdown:1•3•4•5•7•8•8•9•10•15•16•23•32•37•42•44•49 & soon 2•6•20•21•51•42

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
                              I don't know. Bench is definitely in a higher class (like the best catcher of all time class), but it's pretty close between Fisk and Munson when you're talking just about the 70s. I'd probably give the edge to Munson because while both could hit, Munson had a good edge defensively and did win an MVP. However, Fisk moves pretty far ahead of Munson in career value as Fisk had tremendous longevity for a catcher.
                              Ok - I wasn't going to elaborate much since it's so far off the topic of a mediocre player (Ensberg) wearing the number of a somewhat better than average player (O'Neil), but what the heck.

                              I think Fisk was the second best AL catcher of the '70's. He was very good. In my opinion however, he was not Munson's equal. I have alway's felt he was elevated to the "equal to" & "better than" Munson plateau ONLY because he played for the rival Sox. Put him in Anehiem or Oakland at the start of his career and he's merely a good canidate for 2nd best catcher, NOT Munson's rival. As for his longevity, we have to start comparing him to guys like Tim McCarver. Was he the elite catcher in the leaque all those extra years ? No. It's fair to compare Munson not to Fisk, but Bench.

                              Bench is above Munson, granted, but not way above him. I do take issue though with the "best ever" that's thrown around so easily with him. I believe a strong case stands for Yogi Berra as better. He seems to get shafted in the Bench hype.

                              Either way though, I don't think Morgan Ensberg should wear any of their numbers.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
                                I think Fisk was the second best AL catcher of the '70's. He was very good. In my opinion however, he was not Munson's equal. I have alway's felt he was elevated to the "equal to" & "better than" Munson plateau ONLY because he played for the rival Sox. Put him in Anehiem or Oakland at the start of his career and he's merely a good canidate for 2nd best catcher, NOT Munson's rival. As for his longevity, we have to start comparing him to guys like Tim McCarver. Was he the elite catcher in the leaque all those extra years ? No. It's fair to compare Munson not to Fisk, but Bench.
                                I think a fair argument could be made for Munson being better in the 70s than Fisk, but even if Munson had not died, he most likely would not have had close to the longevity of Fisk. Munson seemed to be in decline his last couple of years.

                                I don't see how Fisk can be compared to McCarver. McCarver hung around for a long time, but was a part timer his last 7 seasons. Starting at age 32, he never had more than 169 ABs in a season. Fisk on the otherhand was not only an everyday catcher through age 43, he was also an All Star at that age. Fisk hit 18 homeruns as a 43 year old catcher, this is very remarkable. There's very little comparison between Fisk and McCarver, IMO, and Fisk's amazing longevity, in which he was very productive for a catcher through age 43, really make him stand out in a lot of ways.

                                Bench is above Munson, granted, but not way above him. I do take issue though with the "best ever" that's thrown around so easily with him. I believe a strong case stands for Yogi Berra as better. He seems to get shafted in the Bench hype.
                                Berra is also in the conversation, but I prefer Bench, who was better defensively. They're very close offensively though.

                                Comment

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