Retaliation Against the Rays

[DoubleX]

Apparently the Yankees let it be known today that they didn't appreciate Elliot Johnson barrelling into Cervelli the other day.

According to ESPN.com, Heath Phillips plunked stud prospect Evan Longoria in the 1st inning (after giving up 2 runs), and then Shelley Duncan took out Akinori Iwamura with a hard slide at 2B. Jonny Gomes then tackled Duncan and the benches cleared.

Duncan had this to say:

"What it does is it opens another chapter of intensity in the spring training ballgames," Duncan said, referring to the home-plate collision. "They showed what is acceptable to them and how they're going to play the game, so we're going to go out there to match their intensity -- or even exceed it."

I don't condone this type of behavior, particularly in spring training, but I absolutely agree with Duncan. If the Rays are going to play aggressively in Spring Training and risk injuries to players on both sides, then taking out the 2Bman with a hard slide is perfectly acceptable, IMO. Both barrelling into the catcher and taking out the 2Bman are accepted parts of the game, and if it's ok to barrel into the catcher in ST, then it's ok to take out the 2Bman in ST, and I hope Don Zimmer and the Devil Rays realize that.

This also illuminates another aspect of Johnson's recklessness the other day, in that by playing overly aggressive in Spring Training, he was inflaming the other team and opening up his teammates to retaliation and potential injury, which is the last thing you want in ST. The Devil Rays got what they asked for, as far as I'm concerned, and it would be extremely hypocritical for them to lament the Yankees agressive play.

[ipitch]

I don't condone this type of behavior, particularly in spring training, but I absolutely agree with Duncan. If the Rays are going to play aggressively in Spring Training and risk injuries to players on both sides, then taking out the 2Bman with a hard slide is perfectly acceptable, IMO. Both barrelling into the catcher and taking out the 2Bman are accepted parts of the game, and if it's ok to barrel into the catcher in ST, then it's ok to take out the 2Bman in ST, and I hope Don Zimmer and the Devil Rays realize that.

I've haven't seen it, but I heard on WFAN that Duncan was out by a mile and came in with his spikes high. So, that is a little different than barreling over a catcher that is in the basepath.

[KCGHOST]

What you have is not the Yankees protecting their manhood, but a fringe player (Duncan) trying to show he belongs with the team. The two managers need to get their teams together and explain championships are not won during Spring Training, but they can be lost.

[DoubleX]

What you have is not the Yankees protecting their manhood, but a fringe player (Duncan) trying to show he belongs with the team. The two managers need to get their teams together and explain championships are not won during Spring Training, but they can be lost.

And that's exactly how people justify the play by the guy on the Rays.

[DoubleX]

I've haven't seen it, but I heard on WFAN that Duncan was out by a mile and came in with his spikes high. So, that is a little different than barreling over a catcher that is in the basepath.

There was a time that was acceptable in order to avoid the out. I think the point of all this is that it's Spring Training, and if one team is going to play with aggressiveness that is not normally accorded in Spring Training or appreciated by opponents, then the book is out the window and all is fair. It would have been courteous given that it's spring training for the guy to slide or avoid barrelling over Cervelli, he chose not to. It would have been courteous for Duncan to slide and just get tagged out, but Duncan chose not to. It's the same to me. If one team is going to throw the book out the window and play aggressive and risk injuries to both sides, it's fair for the other team as well.

[DoubleX]

Looking at the clip of Duncan's play, he went in with his spikes up, but he barely seemed to make contact with Iwamura. Iwamura didn't move at all from the contact, he just stood there and didn't do much at all. Then Gomes comes in from the OF and tackles Duncan.

[Westlake]

Stop trying to steal our sparring partner.

[Evangelion]

Stop trying to steal our sparring partner.

Boston hasn't rumble too much with Tampa since Pedro was here, huh?

[Pere]

It sounds to me like the Yankees are the ones picking a fight with an intentional plunking (assuming that's what it was; I didn't see any of the games). Based on the descriptions here, neither team has a basis for complaining about events on the basepaths. The paths belong to the runner.

[Eddiey]

It sounds to me like the Yankees are the ones picking a fight with an intentional plunking (assuming that's what it was; I didn't see any of the games). Based on the descriptions here, neither team has a basis for complaining about events on the basepaths. The paths belong to the runner.

When the catcher was run over while blocking the plate the other day there
was no intention on the runners part to injure the catcher.
When Longoria was hit with a pitch in the first inning it was in the midsection
with no apparent intent to injure. The Yankees point was made.
But, what Duncan did was off the charts. With spikes flying high there could
have been only one purpose. To apply bodily injury to Iwamura. Spikes flying
at any time, pre season or in season is dirty play.

[DoubleX]

When the catcher was run over while blocking the plate the other day there
was no intention on the runners part to injure the catcher.
When Longoria was hit with a pitch in the first inning it was in the midsection
with no apparent intent to injure. The Yankees point was made.
But, what Duncan did was off the charts. With spikes flying high there could
have been only one purpose. To apply bodily injury to Iwamura. Spikes flying
at any time, pre season or in season is dirty play.

The point made today though, is if it's ok to cross one line, why not cross another? I still think Johnson barreling into the catcher was very uncalled for in a Spring Training game because of the risk of injury to both players, the fact that such can incite the other team (as it did) and further expose players to injury, and that Spring Training is precisely that - training. The games are meant to get the players in shape, with mutual benefits to be had, not go all out aggressively and seriously risk injury and stir the pot. There could be long lasting effects of Johnson bowling over the catcher in a meaningless spring training game, in the form of bad blood during the season, and that one act could risk future injuries to players that actually matter for both teams. Was it really worth it in spring training to incite a potential season-long feud?

So if the Rays were ok crossing that line and getting about as competitive as you can in Spring Training, and in fact seriously injuring a player, what's wrong with taking out a 2Bman trying to apply a tag? In both situations the runner is trying to avoid an out, and there's nothing in the rules against a hard slide, just as there is nothing in the rules against barreling over a catcher in Spring Training. So why is it ok to knock over the catcher to avoid the out in Spring Training but not slide hard to avoid the out?

Plus, if you watch the clip, it seems Duncan barely touched Iwamura. Iwamura barely moved from the impact.

[Yankees 9782]

Video of today's brawl

I posted two on my blog here:

http://slidingintohome.blogspot.com/2008/03/video-of-brawl.html

[bigtime39]

When a catcher blocks the plate--in any game--he should expect to get run over. The injury was an unfortunate consequence of two players' decisions, not just one. Rarely, however, does a defender at 2B expect a runner to try to plant his spikes squarely on the ole twig and berries.
Today's antics were the consequence (once again) of more than one players' (and apparently one manager's) decisions.
So is Duncan's new Yankee$ nickname "Spikes" or "Cartman"?
He was clearly trying to "Rochambeau" the Rays' defender.

[Pere]

Spring Training is precisely that - training. The games are meant to get the players in shape, with mutual benefits to be had, not go all out aggressively and seriously risk injury and stir the pot.

"Spring Training" hasn't really been about training for some years, not since players could afford to dedicate themselves to conditioning year-round. Also, ST games are now heavily marketed, and tickets have become scarcer and more expensive. The fans are led to believe that there is real baseball to be had, which is why the Billy Crystal thing is a travesty, and this is not.

[Evangelion]

Ryan Gomes? Couldn't they get a upgraded logo of the Tampa Bay Rays on CBS?