dynasty fears

[mjrennie]

just watched baseball tonight on nasn...well, the few fleeting moments between the adverts. they were crapping on about a bosox dynasty. that would be unpallatable. how seriously are we behind them? a few years yet?

btw, how do you stand the commericals? lol.

[DoubleX]

The Sox are built to be competitive for a while, but they are not the juggernaut that the folks at ESPN would love to make them out to be. First, even if you get to the postseason, it's a crapshoot. Look at last year, I believe if there wasn't a superfluous offday in the middle of the three game stretch in Cleveland during the ALCS, to essentially rob Cleveland of it's momentum and as well as setup Boston's pitching, I think Cleveland would have won the series. Let's also not forget that last year the Yankees almost closed something like a 14.5 game deficit on the Sox during the regular season, finishing just 2 games back. Boston's pitching this year is starting to look a little hazy as well. Schilling's career might be over. Beckett could be starting the season on the DL, and even though I believe he's ascending to that true ace level, he still isn't much of an innings eater and his ERA was over 5.00 just one season ago. Lester and Buchholz, while very promising, will likely leave a lot of innings out there. And Wakefield is Wakefield, you'll get some good games and you'll get some blowups.

Don't get me wrong, I still think Boston is the team to beat in the division, by virtue of winning last year and having more contributions from promising young player this year (Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, perhaps Lowrie and Masterson as well), but I do not believe they are head and shoulders above anyone, particularly the Tigers, Yankees, and Indians.

[stejay]

just watched baseball tonight on nasn...well, the few fleeting moments between the adverts. they were crapping on about a bosox dynasty. that would be unpallatable. how seriously are we behind them? a few years yet?

btw, how do you stand the commericals? lol.

You do know the majority of fans here are from America or Canada right? Anyways, we are not very far behinf them, because we have more money than them, more talent than them, and more important, we have a larger fanbase. This is the year the Yankees will show everyone just how good we are. BTW, how is the baseball scene in the UK? I lived there for 6 months, and not many people liked baseball, and basketball and football(us) were much more liked american sports. Is this still the case?

[mjrennie]

yeah, i know that this is a board used mainly by our friends in north america.

the baseball scene is probably somewhere between zero and cycling in terms of popularity. i was in the park a while back with my daughter, just throwing a baseball. we get funny looks with our mitts on! a guy walked past and suggested we could play for the boston red sox, obviously just being friendly (i resisted a yankee-laced repost). so, there are some people who know baseball, but it is a minute minority. i am taking my father to the stadium in may, he has been before as he has spent many moons in the states and canada on business down the years. he hates baseball though and says it's boring. and he is a huge cricket fan...work that one out!

thanks for the informed post about the sox. i have endured years of watching our arch rivals in football (man utd) winning so much, i would be gutted if i tune into baseball at the time the main rivals, ie boston, start to eat everything up.

[stejay]

yeah, i know that this is a board used mainly by our friends in north america.

Hey buddy, I wasn't trying to discourage you. It's just the question about NASN( not many people know what it is) thats all. Hope you werent offended. Are you from Manchester. When I lived in the UK, I lived in North Wales, which I understand isn't that far away right?

[DoubleX]

mjrennie,

Given that you are a City fan, and likely have a lot of frustration with United's success, and strong feelings about their dominance, I thought it might be interesting to note that the Yankees are like the American equivalent of Man United. A juggernaut that has the money and resources to be very strong every year, get most everything it wants, attract legions of fairweather type fans, and are despised by many as well for these things. In all, very similar to United. The Dallas Cowboys (which are in your tagline), are like the NFL equivalent of that, except there tends to be more parity in NFL competition due to the salary cap. Still, the size of the Cowboys fanbase and media hype is second to none over here.

Anyway, my point here is that for the reasons you probably detest United, many over here detest the Yankees for very similar reasons. And on the flipside, many people are fans of the Yankees for the same kind of reasons that many people are fans of United. United and the Yankees are two of the same kind.

[mjrennie]

my observations on the yankees...from a novice perspective. i have watched all sorts of sports for many years and there are some crossovers in terms of transferable understanding. baseball is a little different though. i read all the forums and try to learn as quickly as i can.

from what i saw last season:

1. wang is no way the ace some people paint him to be. i understand that his sinker draws the ground outs, but does he ever strike anyone out? i called him in a few games i saw and reckoned he lacked bottle. i think his collapse in the big post season moments support that view. i was hoping he could be used to lure santana, who looks three times the pitcher wang is.

2. pettite looked like he had an iron nerve. very relieved he signed on again, he is good.

3. cano could be special in a year or two.

4. a-rod is about as good a batter as there is in the game. that fella at detroit, magglio something, he looks outstanding too. and the little fella at boston, manny. sadly.

5. torre seemed too indifferent in too many games. did he ever fire anyone up? this girardi guy looks to have a bit more steel and i hope he gets the lads to hustle more. eg, i liked the way reyes got round the bases in that classic 12-9 mets game - he stole 3 i think to register their first run. we got that game live in the uk and it was a beer fest. anyway, i would like to see the yankees hustle that way, get at opponents throats early instead of assuming supremacy. yeah, there was too much of that.

6. the pitching is what it is. iffy. either these 3 young guns do it or they don't. but, as in all sports, to rely on youth is a real risk. i'd be surprised if we made the post season this year, but could be winning it all in 09/10 if the talent develops properly.

look, by all means shoot me down, what the hell does an englishman know anyway? i just love this game with a passion and i drink in the history of it. some of the threads on this forum are amazing ie the yankee stadium pre renovation one; enough to make a grwon man weep!

for what it's worth, detroit look like the team to beat to me. their offence is loaded. i know it is all about the pitching, but surely the pitchers have more to throw behind with an offence that threatens destruction?

kind regards,

michael.

[stejay]

mjrennie,

Given that you are a City fan, and likely have a lot of frustration with United's success, and strong feelings about their dominance, I thought it might be interesting to note that the Yankees are like the American equivalent of Man United. A juggernaut that has the money and resources to be very strong every year, get most everything it wants, attract legions of fairweather type fans, and are despised by many as well for these things. In all, very similar to United. The Dallas Cowboys (which are in your tagline), are like the NFL equivalent of that, except there tends to be more parity in NFL competition due to the salary cap. Still, the size of the Cowboys fanbase and media hype is second to none over here.

He is right. The Red Sox are the baseball equivelent to Chelsea. After years of nothing, they have become good. My team in soccer is Liverpool by the way.

[mjrennie]

mjrennie,

Given that you are a City fan, and likely have a lot of frustration with United's success, and strong feelings about their dominance, I thought it might be interesting to note that the Yankees are like the American equivalent of Man United. A juggernaut that has the money and resources to be very strong every year, get most everything it wants, attract legions of fairweather type fans, and are despised by many as well for these things. In all, very similar to United. The Dallas Cowboys (which are in your tagline), are like the NFL equivalent of that, except there tends to be more parity in NFL competition due to the salary cap. Still, the size of the Cowboys fanbase and media hype is second to none over here.

Anyway, my point here is that for the reasons you probably detest United, many over here detest the Yankees for very similar reasons. United and the Yankees are two of the same kind.

i know, i have been reminded of this before. chelsea are the richest club though mate, richest by a mile. i did not know about the cowboys hype. hope i don't seem like a bandwagon jumper, i have supported city for nearly 40 years and have spent fortunes travelling with them. through thin and thin, as they say. city have a strong tradition and moved stadiums recently from the one they built in 1923, like ys. i just connected that to the visit to nyc last year. how could i not be drawn in by the yankees?

[stejay]

i know, i have been reminded of this before. chelsea are the richest club though mate, richest by a mile. i did not know about the cowboys hype. hope i don't seem like a bandwagon jumper, i have supported city for nearly 40 years and have spent fortunes travelling with them. through thin and thin, as they say. city have a strong tradition and moved stadiums recently from the one they built in 1923, like ys. i just connected that to the visit to nyc last year. how could i not be drawn in by the yankees?

Nothing wrong with the bandwagon buddy. I support the Yankees and the Cubs, and have an unnatural obsession with the former Brooklyn Dodgers. I blame my dad, he supports Yanks and Ifell in love about age 4. My grandpa on my moms side is a huge Cubs fan, and have fell in love with them, but only when Ryne and Maddux came on the scene. Plus, I support Liverpool in soccer, as I love watching them play, and the treble win in 2001 confirmed as a fan. Like I said, nothing wrong with the old bandwagon.

[mjrennie]

He is right. The Red Sox are the baseball equivelent to Chelsea. After years of nothing, they have become good. My team in soccer is Liverpool by the way.

tough one this...i don't necessarily agree about the similarities though. the football season is 38 games and some teams buy all the talent and lose maybe 1 or 2 matches. (2 matches to rivals city, in the case of united. lol). seems that the richest club in baseball cannot buy the talent...there are trades and contracts. in football, you want a guy, you get a guy. if it were the case, the yanks would have just bought santana, ordonez,cabrera, guerrero, etc over the winter. as it is, they bought no-one because buying is not the game, it is trades. we don't have trades at all in football, it is unheard of. if city want berbatov in the summer, for example, we will offer 30mill. if spurs want the dough, they sell.

and anyway, the yanks are blue, utd are red. the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. as we of the blue half of manchester always say...red makes women look cheap and men effeminate.

[mjrennie]

Nothing wrong with the bandwagon buddy. I support the Yankees and the Cubs, and have an unnatural obsession with the former Brooklyn Dodgers. I blame my dad, he supports Yanks and Ifell in love about age 4. My grandpa on my moms side is a huge Cubs fan, and have fell in love with them, but only when Ryne and Maddux came on the scene. Plus, I support Liverpool in soccer, as I love watching them play, and the treble win in 2001 confirmed as a fan. Like I said, nothing wrong with the old bandwagon.

cool mate, cool. we have plenty in common. we get most of the cubs games here because the start in the afternoon a lot. i love their tortured history and the bartman story is the stuff of legend. if the yanks don't win it, i hope they do. wrigly looks like our old football stadiums and the atmosphere looks incredible. i will go there.

i have just ordered a book called the boys of summer and plan to go over the brooklyn in may just to see where ebbets field was. i cannot imagine how they could do that to those people. it would be like moving liverpool to moscow, it is the equivalent distance. it is almost a tragedy on a human scale, just awful. if you asked the average joe in the street of, say, birmingham (uk), he has probaly only heard of 3 baseball teams: yanks, sox and the dodgers.

as for liverpool, well, let it be. mancunians and scousers have a sour relationshaip, though my mother is one of THEM.

[stejay]

tough one this...i don't necessarily agree about the similarities though. the football season is 38 games and some teams buy all the talent and lose maybe 1 or 2 matches. (2 matches to rivals city, in the case of united. lol). seems that the richest club in baseball cannot buy the talent...there are trades and contracts. in football, you want a guy, you get a guy. if it were the case, the yanks would have just bought santana, ordonez,cabrera, guerrero, etc over the winter. as it is, they bought no-one because buying is not the game, it is trades. we don't have trades at all in football, it is unheard of. if city want berbatov in the summer, for example, we will offer 30mill. if spurs want the dough, they sell.

and anyway, the yanks are blue, utd are red. the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. as we of the blue half of manchester always say...red makes women look cheap and men effeminate.

What I meant was that the Red Sox had not won the World Series since Babe left. Chelsea had not won the English league since the 1950's. That is what I meant. Also, don't you think an American baseball fanatic does not know how the trade system works??

[DoubleX]

tough one this...i don't necessarily agree about the similarities though. the football season is 38 games and some teams buy all the talent and lose maybe 1 or 2 matches. (2 matches to rivals city, in the case of united. lol). seems that the richest club in baseball cannot buy the talent...there are trades and contracts. in football, you want a guy, you get a guy. if it were the case, the yanks would have just bought santana, ordonez,cabrera, guerrero, etc over the winter. as it is, they bought no-one because buying is not the game, it is trades. we don't have trades at all in football, it is unheard of. if city want berbatov in the summer, for example, we will offer 30mill. if spurs want the dough, they sell.

There was once a time where a baseball team could straight-up purchase a player from another team (Babe Ruth, for example was purchased from the Red Sox), but those kinds of transactions are generally prohibited now or are restricted to certain mechanisms (like the Rule V draft).

However, money still goes a long way in baseball towards acquiring talent. The Yankees grossly outspend every other franchise, only the Sox even come relatively close. The Yankees resources allow them to do a lot of things, such as:

- Retain their own stars, whereas many other teams must trade or lose their stars in free agency when they become too expensive;

- Trade for players with expensive contracts that no one else wants - that's how the Yankees were able to get Bobby Abreu for little talent in return; or how they were able to trade for A-Rod and his huge contract despite having an already very high payroll;

- Can attract free agents by offering gobs of money.

The thing holding the Yankees back from acquiring more star players are 1) Even they have a limit; 2) Free agents have a mind of their own and might want to play elsewhere, and might get offered more; and 3) The Yankees pay a hefty tax to the league because they are annually well over the salary threshold. As a result, for every dollar they spend over that threshold, they must also pay an additional 40% of that amount to the league (which is then shared by the other teams). This has curtailed the Yankees spending, or else that money which is going to the league could be spent on additional players.

[mjrennie]

. Also, don't you think an American baseball fanatic does not know how the trade system works??

of course, no offense intended.