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  • If Jeter is Hurt....

    Should the team play A-Rod at SS? I read someplace, I thinkt he Daily News, that Girardi suggested he was considering the idea. If Jeter misses say a week and does not go on the DL, the alternative is Wilson Betemit, and I for one would rather not see Betemit strike out 2 or 3 times a game. So that leaves A-Rod (with Ensberg at 3B). Would this rock the boat too muc? Can A-Rod still play SS?

    In a weird way, the team might have an easier decision if Jeter went on the DL, as Alberto Gonzalez and his great glove would likely be given a shot at SS.

  • #2
    Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
    Should the team play A-Rod at SS? I read someplace, I thinkt he Daily News, that Girardi suggested he was considering the idea. If Jeter misses say a week and does not go on the DL, the alternative is Wilson Betemit, and I for one would rather not see Betemit strike out 2 or 3 times a game. So that leaves A-Rod (with Ensberg at 3B). Would this rock the boat too muc? Can A-Rod still play SS?

    In a weird way, the team might have an easier decision if Jeter went on the DL, as Alberto Gonzalez and his great glove would likely be given a shot at SS.

    I think it might rock the Yankees boat but I guess if is up to Girardi.

    NEW YORK – Joe Girardi didn’t say no. Joe Torre would have.

    Now, this is not to compare Girardi and Torre, not in a mano-a-mano fashion at least, but one that deals with today’s reality in the New York Yankees universe: Suggestions that Alex Rodriguez move to shortstop if the strained left quadriceps that forced Derek Jeter out of a game Monday lingers.

    “There’s a lot of different scenarios we’ll talk about as a club and decide what we’re going to do,” Girardi said, and even though there was little substance to his words, it felt frighteningly candid – and, considering the other options, a rather sensible idea. Because under Torre’s watch, no matter how damaging to the Yankees in the short or long term, he wouldn’t dare place someone of consequence at Jeter’s position for fear of upsetting the captain’s chi.



    Only if the injury doesn’t heal – Jeter thinks it’ll take a day or two, Girardi closer to a week and both hope he can avoid the disabled list – might the sentiment change, and even then it would be a hard sell. And that’s an important point to discuss, particularly months after a number of studies concluded that Jeter is among, if not the, worst-fielding shortstop in the major leagues.

    One large study, conducted at the Wharton Business School, uses a metric – a statistic-based analysis – to show how Jeter was the pits from 2002-05 and Rodriguez was among the best shortstops. Its veracity is questionable, considering it named the positively slothful Ken Harvey as its first-base representative.

    Not nearly as dubious is John Dewan’s book, “The Fielding Bible”, in which Dewan culls data from every play and rates players on a plus-minus scale – plus for making a play that at least one of his peers had missed, and minus for the opposite. It is the new standard for fielding statistics, and in the past three years, Jeter is minus-90, the second-worst number in all of baseball, better only than Manny Ramirez’s minus-109.

    Is that damning enough to even entertain alternates at the position of the most beloved Yankee of the past two decades? Probably not, even though the Yankees sure have a built-in excuse if they want to see whether a bulkier, older A-Rod can cut it at shortstop.

    It doesn’t help that Jeter’s legs, his springboards in the field, are causing him such trouble. In the bottom of the first inning Monday with a runner on first base against Tampa Bay, Jeter slapped a ground ball at the third baseman and lurched as much as ran down the line. He beat the double-play throw, spent another half-inning in the field and left before the third inning.

    “He’s always been a tough kid, and he wants to be out there,” Girardi said. “No matter how his body feels, he wants to be out there. But you know, with these conditions, you jeopardize really hurting yourself badly, and we don’t want that, because we can’t afford to miss him for a long time.”

    Jeter can still hit. He proves that every year, his inside-out stroke shooting balls to right field and reinforcing his opportunism. Jeter gets the loudest cheers at Yankee Stadium, and he didn’t earn them only by smiling into a camera.

    Ultimately, such deification comes to roost, and to think the 33-year-old Jeter, with more than 12 seasons at the most demanding position, wants to continue playing shortstop deep into the decade is troublesome. Try center field. Settle at first base. Anything to keep him upright, which he has managed to stay with stunning regularity thus far.

    Jeter first felt a twinge in his quad during the Yankees’ Sunday game and iced it before Monday’s game. That didn’t help, and Jeter ended up in an MRI tube to rule out extensive damage. Doctors found a low-level strain, nothing like in 2001, when Jeter missed Opening Day because of his right quad.

    “That was worse,” Jeter said. “This is a mild strain, from what I was told. The other one was a lot worse than that. It was something you could feel moving your leg, period. This one is more when I put for a little effort. I really start running before I feel it.”

    Soon after he felt it, Jeter excused himself. Wilson Betemit moved from first base to shortstop. Betemit, at 230 pounds, plays the position with all the agility of a cast-iron skillet. He’s not the answer.

    Aside from Betemit and A-Rod, there’s not another person on the Yankees’ active roster who can play shortstop. They could call up rookie Alberto Gonzalez, who is on the team’s 40-man roster, or Cody Ransom, who would require a roster move but bring more experience. Or, of course, they could put A-Rod at short and use Morgan Ensberg, a natural third baseman, to fill in.

    Like Girardi said, plenty of scenarios.

    If Jeter heals slowly, it could get ugly, as quad strains tend to hang around like freeloaders. Mark Teixeira spent five weeks on the DL with one last season. Bengie Molina hobbled around most of spring. Victor Martinez missed a dozen games last year.

    Jeter will sacrifice his first Tuesday afternoon. As much as he wants to play, Jeter recognizes Girardi runs a different ship than Torre did. When Girardi says no, he means it, and while he gladly massages egos, he also keeps them in check.

    So for now it falls on Betemit, a natural shortstop who outgrew the position about 40 pounds ago. He’ll stand in the most trafficked position on the field, and he’ll replace a no-doubt Hall of Famer, and he’ll try to swim.

    Rodriguez will stand next to him. He last played shortstop full time in 2003. Five years is a long time. And still, the idea just won’t die. It’s so crazy it just might work, and weird as it sounds, that’s the last thing the Yankees need.


    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

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    • #3
      If Jeter is hurt then that would be the logical thing to do, send Rodriguez to SS and Ensburg at Third base.

      Comment


      • #4
        agreed its a good idea

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DoubleX View Post
          Should the team play A-Rod at SS? I read someplace, I thinkt he Daily News, that Girardi suggested he was considering the idea. If Jeter misses say a week and does not go on the DL, the alternative is Wilson Betemit, and I for one would rather not see Betemit strike out 2 or 3 times a game. So that leaves A-Rod (with Ensberg at 3B). Would this rock the boat too muc? Can A-Rod still play SS?

          In a weird way, the team might have an easier decision if Jeter went on the DL, as Alberto Gonzalez and his great glove would likely be given a shot at SS.
          Its a tough call. I guess its worth a shot though.
          2009 World Series Champions, The New York Yankees

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          • #6
            Originally posted by philipthegreat View Post
            If Jeter is hurt then that would be the logical thing to do, send Rodriguez to SS and Ensburg at Third base.
            Logic is rejected each time the superior SS is playing 3B while the inferior one continues to start at SS.

            A-Rod should return to his natural position, but I wonder how good he is after he stop playing the position regularly since coming to New York. If we're talking about the same A-Rod who played SS before coming to New York, then he would be upgrade from Jeter, if not, then it's not worth moving him around. Not like Betemit terrible. It's his role to play SS. Either starting A-Rod at SS or Betemit, neither moves seems better or worse than the other.

            Today Betemit got the start. I don't believe A-Rod would start at SS. People might start to figure out Jeter isn't that good of a SS.

            Comment


            • #7
              Dun,Dun,Dun....
              Joe Giradi's first conundrum.

              Riddle me this Batman....if Derek Jeter is out for an extended period, i.e. a DL stint of say 15 Days. Do the Yankees want an automatic out like Betemit keeping SS warm? Or do they move over ARod to SS temporarily and call in Morgan Ensberg to man 3B? Or do they just call Alberto Gonzalez, which gives them a much better glove and a scrappy hitter who's not going to be an automatic strikeout?

              As much as I want to answer "Move ARod" to SS, what happens when ARod makes his first ESPN Web Gem and it gets National attention? Then the "Should ARod stay @ SS?" questions will arise and thus create a "QB Controversy" of sorts. It could anger Jeter and affect his play. And please Jeter-Nation, please spare me the "it wouldn't affect him because his a professional". Jeter is human and has an ego the size of Manhattan. It will affect him. Especially, once he gets back and makes his first error.

              It might just be best to avoid this and keep ARod @ 3B and call up Gonzalez and see if he can hold it down. Then the next question is.....who is going to be sent down? Shelly?
              "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Evangelion View Post
                Logic is rejected each time the superior SS is playing 3B while the inferior one continues to start at SS.

                Thank you. Jeter should have manned up and moved positions for the good of the team when A-Rod came on board.
                :cap:

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Silver Blaze View Post
                  Thank you. Jeter should have manned up and moved positions for the good of the team when A-Rod came on board.
                  That's been discussed quite a few times here, and people have always taken different angles. The one I most agree with depends upon one's understanding that both Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter will be playing on the same team right next to one another. It's not the typical "player vs player" comparison.

                  Was Alex Rodriguez the superior defensive SS? Yes he was. However, since he had better coverage on the glove side, which was definitely Jeter's weakness, then Jeter wouldn't make a very good 3Bman. This would be because moving to one's left is what a 3Bman needs to do often in the "hot corner".

                  I get the impression that the Yanks should've had Jeter at 2B instead, since he would be better able to go up the middle (to his right at 2B; to his left at SS), and he charges the ball well. He's also great backing up to catch arching & towering fly balls hit into shallow CF.

                  Anyway, this article was in today's Post:

                  YANKS SUMMON GONZALEZ FOR SHORTSTOP
                  Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                  Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                  THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                  Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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                  • #10
                    Jeter would have better suited for the outfield than remain at SS. You would have received a upgrade at SS and receive a moderate to good fielder in the outfield if Jeter moved to one of the outfield positions.
                    Originally posted by Mattingly
                    YANKS SUMMON GONZALEZ FOR SHORTSTOP
                    That should end the speculation of A-Rod being moved over to SS.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm away from home due to work....but can someone tell me what the heck is going on?

                      I see that Bruney started? IPK relieved.
                      Shelly was sent down and Gonzalez was called up?
                      "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Evangelion View Post
                        Jeter would have better suited for the outfield than remain at SS. You would have received a upgrade at SS and receive a moderate to good fielder in the outfield if Jeter moved to one of the outfield positions.

                        That should end the speculation of A-Rod being moved over to SS.
                        I've seen quite a few threads here and on another board about whether Jeter should play another position. The positions mentioned were:

                        3B after A-Rod came aboard;
                        2B (due to his deficiencies fielding to his glove side);
                        CF (since his overall range and foot speed is good).

                        From what's available, Jeter played only SS in the Minor Leagues. However, he was signed to a Minor League contract in June 1992, and those stats I've linked only go back to 1994, so I'm unsure if he'd played any MiLB games from 1992-94.

                        With Bernie in CF and Paulie in RF, it wasn't until 2002 that a regular OF spot even opened up. There is a possibility that Jeter could've played LF or CF sometime around 2003 or thereabouts, but with Joe Torre there, that point became moot, since Torre was extremely loyal to his players, and Derek Jeter seemed to be the one he was most loyal to.

                        Could the Yanks have signed A-Rod in 2001, asking him to play short, moving Jeter to the OF? Let's just ignore the cost and overall contract's factor, to lessen the extent of another argument. They could've, but I think that would've harmed the psyche of some Yankee fans, who'd had Jeter there are the "Yankee SS for his career". In fact, when both Rodriguez, Jeter and Manny were the top-named free agents after the 2000 season, Yankee fans were aghast that Jeter remained unsigned, and felt they'd lose him to another team.

                        Still lots of debate about this, but in the end, I now think that with his quick release, movement to his right, his ability to spend and run backwards, that he'd be an ideal 2Bman.

                        We've also had Hideki Matsui in LF (or DH) since 2003, so very few OF spots were available, especially after Damon came aboard, then Cabrera and now Abreu.
                        Last edited by Mattingly; 04-10-2008, 12:54 AM.
                        Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                        Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                        THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                        Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TonyStarks View Post
                          I'm away from home due to work....but can someone tell me what the heck is going on?

                          I see that Bruney started? IPK relieved.
                          Shelly was sent down and Gonzalez was called up?
                          You must work late, as do I. The article mentioned a rain delay, so Girardi chose to have Bruney start, so as not to jeopardize Kennedy. It didn't work out in the end, but it was at least worthy a try.

                          Shelley Duncan was sent down so that Alberto Gonzalez could take Jeter's place without having to place Jeter on the DL. I don't think that Jeter's MRI results are back yet, so we'll have to see.

                          Yanks scratch Kennedy due to rain
                          Bruney makes first career start; rookie would pitch after delay


                          -and-

                          Yanks option Duncan to add shortstop
                          Gonzalez recalled from Triple-A while Jeter's quad strain heals
                          Last edited by Mattingly; 04-10-2008, 01:20 AM.
                          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                          Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                          THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                          Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Jeter did not look good during spring training and he has not looked good during the games so far. Last year, he was making a lot of errant throws and Mientkiewicz, who's superior defensively to anyone now platooning at first, was constantly making great catches and tags to compensate for them (and not getting sufficiently recognized for the effort, IMHO). Giambi, of all people, has already made at least one one terrific play to do the same thing. Something may not be right with Jeter. He's even made some throws to second that were off or late. I wrote last season that if they let Mientkiewicz go without finding an equivalent replacement, Jeter's bad throws would no longer go unnoticed, and I fear that will come to pass, especially now that Duncan's been sent to triple-A. I'm unsure about moving A-rod over, though. He's spent a lot of time to get comfortable at third, and Gonzalez may be all-glove-no-bat, but the glove is very good. If Jeter were out for an extended period, then it might be a different story.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sandlot View Post
                              Jeter did not look good during spring training and he has not looked good during the games so far. Last year, he was making a lot of errant throws and Mientkiewicz, who's superior defensively to anyone now platooning at first, was constantly making great catches and tags to compensate for them (and not getting sufficiently recognized for the effort, IMHO). Giambi, of all people, has already made at least one one terrific play to do the same thing. Something may not be right with Jeter. He's even made some throws to second that were off or late. I wrote last season that if they let Mientkiewicz go without finding an equivalent replacement, Jeter's bad throws would no longer go unnoticed, and I fear that will come to pass, especially now that Duncan's been sent to triple-A. I'm unsure about moving A-rod over, though. He's spent a lot of time to get comfortable at third, and Gonzalez may be all-glove-no-bat, but the glove is very good. If Jeter were out for an extended period, then it might be a different story.
                              You might be right about the throwing and that will be something to keep an eye on when he comes back. I will say though that his range does appear to be better so far this year, as he's actually reached a few balls that I was totally surprised by. The team is going to have to start thinking about what to do with Jeter in the long-run as he ages and his skills diminish. It's hard to believe that he's almost 34. It's really not uncommon for a SS to move in his 30s, even Cal Ripken did (starting at age 36). I'm not sure what the solution is at this point though.
                              Last edited by DoubleX; 04-10-2008, 07:30 AM.

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