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  • is Mussina done?

    Many say Mussina is done and needs to be replaced. What do you think?

    I was reluctant to say Mussina is done at the beginning of the year, but so far- I think it's safe to say he's got nothing left.. altho it is very early.

  • #2
    Yes, he's finished. He's been finished since last season. Yankees took long enough to remove him from the rotation. People start believing Mussina returning to form after one good start, but he's not. Mussina just doesn't have it and should retire when the season over. It's just a matter of when the Yankees will remove Mussina from the rotation. You could say it's early, but Mussina been bad since last season. He's the number three pitcher of this rotation. The Yankees can replace Mussina, but they need Hughes or/and Kennedy to step up and replace Mussina in the rotation. I don't believe Rasner or Igawa can do that.

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    • #3
      I did not see last night's game, so I can not tell how bad he was.

      But I am in doubt a little bit. I think the two games before last night, he did a decent job. Too bad that he had to face Beckett once (a sure loss, no matter how good Moose is pitching). But overall last season and this season (including ST) he has been miserable.

      The problem with him is that Manny is killing him. Those two homers took three runs across home plate. He should give the guy a BB every time he appears at bat, especially with runners on the base; even if the bases are loaded. I know that the latter is not common, but what do you prefer? Just one run on a bases loaded intentional walk or four on a homer?

      I tend to say that the Yankees should release him, but since I saw some improvements the last two games before last night, I am willing to see how he will do in the coming two starts. If he falters, no doubt that the Yankees should kick him out.

      Just my :twocents:

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      • #4
        I think Moose has to be smarter. In his first few starts, his location/command was excellent. Aside from one stupid pitch to Manny in Boston, he'd been having great outings.

        Last night his control/command was awful, and he refused to pitch on the inner third and upper half of the plate to Manny. To pitch effectively to Manny Ramirez when you have no fastball velocity to speak of, you need to pitch to this green zone:



        If you don't keep him honest in that region of the plate (whether it's for balls or strikes), he can look out over the plate and extend his arms.

        Farnsworth showed how you pitch to Manny, if he did take it to an extreme last night. You need to mix low/away off speed pitches (many of them for balls) with high/inside pitches (mostly fastballs). If you walk him, you tip your cap and move on to Youkilis, who's batting over his head right now, but still isn't nearly the power threat Manny is. The key is mixing location and speeds, and avoiding pitches for strikes that Manny can extend his arms on. This means no pitches in the middle of the plate. Off speed stuff low and away, tailing fastballs up and in. If you hit him or walk him, that's fine.

        Moose needs to have impeccable command of his pitches right now to be successful. It's something he definitely CAN do, but there are going to be nights where it's not there, and on those nights, he won't be long for the game. I expect him to be inconsistant. Really good nights (6 IP, 2ER) and bad nights (>6 IP, 4-5 ER), and some dreadful nights (3 IP, 5 ER).

        I still think he can help this team, however. I don't think he's completely lost it. We actually saw flashes of it last night, but he was getting behind so many batters, failing to be aggressive with two strike counts, etc. And he didn't pitch Manny correctly. That was half of the battle, really. Aside from Drew and Youkilis, the rest of that lineup isn't going to do damage, at least until Ortiz gets going, which hopefully happens a few days after never.
        New York Yankees
        New York Rangers
        New York Giants

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        • #5
          I'd have to see how well he does against other teams. I have no idea why Girardi never got the memo I'd said, that Moose shouldn't pitch to Manny. They are indeed a dangerous combination, much like a lit match and a gallon of gasoline.

          Right now, we've got Hughes, Moose and Kennedy who shouldn't pitch to Boston. If Girardi isn't going to be praying for rain, I do hope that he at least has the wisdom to use the IBBs effectively. If not, then why the heck is he in the dugout? Sightseeing like he's gotten free tickets to the game?

          If a pitcher is struggling and you know that a team is going to put a hurting on them, why not give the pitcher a little extra help? I Ortiz isn't hitting so well (and no guarantee that'll last much longer), at least try getting out Ortiz and pitch around Manny.

          Oh, and I'd go hard after Ellsbury and Pedroia, since they seem to get on base a few times, and they precede Ortiz and Manny.

          Moose's next start is a road game on Wednesday against the Pale Hose.

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          • #6
            Moose needs his fastball above 87. If I remember correctly he had one of his best games his second start. But he has to hit his spots and have control. His last two starts were against BoSoxI (and Beckett) but he made mistakes over the plate. If he doesn't do better soon I want a rotation change. Maybe use Moose as a long reliever (replace Hawkins).

            Clipper

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            • #7
              Originally posted by clipper View Post
              Moose needs his fastball above 87. If I remember correctly he had one of his best games his second start. But he has to hit his spots and have control. His last two starts were against BoSoxI (and Beckett) but he made mistakes over the plate. If he doesn't do better soon I want a rotation change. Maybe use Moose as a long reliever (replace Hawkins).

              Clipper
              He's not effectively adapting as a pitcher. His velocity is declining, considering he's a pitcher that use to working away from hitters, it's hard for him to change what has been effective the majority by asking him to work inside, you could see he's trying to work inside on the hitters. Mussina needs the velocity of fastball to increase, but time taken it's toll on his arm. He likely can't pitcher with higher velocity than what you're currently seeing. Mussina been ineffectively for nearly a year. I don't know why you would end this season expecting him to be a viable starter, let alone a number three starter of a contender.

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              • #8
                Moose is done. I really like his older days and he is just nothing like it. I don't see anything better though other than letting Joba try something out. Thats the only thing we have to replace him.
                Quest for 27
                Winners make goals, losers make excuses.

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                • #9
                  he's BEEN done. twas hopinig he was gone after last year.

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                  • #10
                    Even if he is done what are the Yanks going to do??
                    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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                    • #11
                      If Mussina wants to survive in this league, he has to remake himself into a guy who nibbles with location cause he don't got is stuff wise anymore a la steve trachsel. If he doesn't learn how to live at the edges of the corners and if he doesn't get calls to go his way, he will continue to get shelled.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Evangelion View Post
                        He's not effectively adapting as a pitcher. His velocity is declining, considering he's a pitcher that use to working away from hitters, it's hard for him to change what has been effective the majority by asking him to work inside, you could see he's trying to work inside on the hitters. Mussina needs the velocity of fastball to increase, but time taken it's toll on his arm. He likely can't pitcher with higher velocity than what you're currently seeing. Mussina been ineffectively for nearly a year. I don't know why you would end this season expecting him to be a viable starter, let alone a number three starter of a contender.
                        The majority is not good.

                        The batters know he is trying to pitch inside. Manny took a step to left and waited for that pitch. Manny got 2 HRs that game.

                        So if he can not increase the velocity of his FB and he has trouble with the corners. Sometimes I feel his confidence is gone. His curve and knuckle curve are going to lose their effectiveness. We can afford to continue much longer if he wins 1 out of 4 games because of our bats (Dave Cone his last year)

                        Do we want him pen or what? Trade and DFA are impossible. Extra day off and have 6 rotation?

                        Clipper

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                        • #13
                          I think it depends on what you're expectations are of Mussina. If you're expecting him to be a consistently good pitcher, than he's done and you're going to be disappointed. If you're expecting him to be a decent back of the rotation guy that will give you some decent stats and some bad ones (kind of like Tim Wakefield in Boston), and perhaps an ERA in the mid 4s, then I think Mussina could still fit this role.

                          Regardless of expectations now though, I do believe that on a whole, Mussina has been a disappointment for the Yankees based on the expectations when he signed before the 2001 season.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Yankeebiscuitfan
                            You can not expect two young guys in their first full season to pitch like an ace. Look at Santana's numbers in his first two seasons. Not very impressive either.

                            They have to adapt and need some time. They'll come around.

                            Well they are as far from being aces as you could be...eras over eight....that's not struggling...that is being hammered. I figured we would see high 4s era from them...not this....

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by johnnypapa View Post
                              Well they are as far from being aces as you could be...eras over eight....that's not struggling...that is being hammered. I figured we would see high 4s era from them...not this....
                              In the meantime I have said that it may be best to send them down to SWB for the time being. Like you said, this is being hammered and certainly not good for their confidence.

                              The only problem is: With which pitchers can you replace them? Igawa? Rasner?

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