So Much Pressure on Yanks' Kids

[LouGehrig]

Putting Hughes and Kennedy into the Yankees' starting rotation is bad baseball. It is unfair to Hughes, Kennedy, the Yankees, and the fans.

http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/so_much_pressure_on_yanks_kids

[DisabledMess]

I agree but the Yankees can't keep doing what they have been doing over the past 6 years because it isn't working. It's a different approach but they had to change.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

I have said that a couple of times already.

It is best for them and for the Yankees in the long run, to send them back to SWB. Maybe try them again in the second half of the season. But the way both Hughes and Kennedy are struggling right now, is not really a confidence builder.

[GCOOP]

right now as it is they have 2 starters.. Wang and Pettitte..
who is gonna replace hughes..kennedy and mussina..
glad they at least reconsidered joba as a starter

[Evangelion]

I have said that a couple of times already.

It is best for them and for the Yankees in the long run, to send them back to SWB. Maybe try them again in the second half of the season. But the way both Hughes and Kennedy are struggling right now, is not really a confidence builder.

There's no viable options at the minor league level to replace them. Unless the Yankees traded or sign another pitcher, I don't see sending Kennedy and Hughes down to the minor league would help the team or the players. A confidence builder? If a rookie believes he'll pitch as well as he did in the minor leagues, then he's foolish. Struggling is part of the game, these players need to correct their problems at the major league level. At the same time, let's not just assume they'll "get it together" over time. I've been waiting for Lester to develop control and it just hasn't happen. How many years have the O's been waiting for Daniel Cabrera to develop control? You might have to wait a full season of these pitchers struggling. Not to say they can't get it together. Some pitchers come up to major league and dominate and other struggle before becoming effective. A recent example that comes to mind is Adam Wainwright, who struggling during the early season, then put it together later.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

right now as it is they have 2 starters.. Wang and Pettitte..
who is gonna replace hughes..kennedy and mussina..
glad they at least reconsidered joba as a starter

Good question. With Joba we will have one spot filled. But what about the other two? I don't really see Igawa as the new messiah. Maybe Rasner. He is doing fine in Scranton/Wilkes Barre, but that doesn't mean a thing.

[Pinstripes]

They better get used to it. They're not going to learn to deal with pressure at the minor league level, and they're not going to adjust to major league hitters at the minor league level.

We've seen plenty of flashes of brilliance from both Kennedy and Hughes to know that it's "in there" somewhere, they just have yet to put it together completely this season.

No better way to learn than the "hard way." Build some character early on, if they don't have it already.

[Pinstripes]

There's no viable options at the minor league level to replace them. Unless the Yankees traded or sign another pitcher, I don't see sending Kennedy and Hughes down to the minor league would help the team or the players. A confidence builder? If a rookie believes he'll pitch as well as he did in the minor leagues, then he's foolish. Struggling is part of the game, these players need to correct their problems at the major league level. At the same time, let's not just assume they'll "get it together" over time. I've been waiting for Lester to develop control and it just hasn't happen. How many years have the O's been waiting for Daniel Cabrera to develop control? You might have to wait a full season of these pitchers struggling. Not to say they can't get it together. Some pitchers come up to major league and dominate and other struggle before becoming effective. A recent example that comes to mind is Adam Wainwright, who struggling during the early season, then put it together later.

You also have to consider that Hughes is 21. It's extremely rare for a pitcher that young to succeed right off the bat at that age. Maybe Dwight Gooden is the best example in "recent" history. Kennedy is 23, so he's no "old man" either.

Felix Hernandez has had a very up and down career so far as well, and probably mostly due to his age and inexperience.

[Evangelion]

You also have to consider that Hughes is 21. It's extremely rare for a pitcher that young to succeed right off the bat at that age. Maybe Dwight Gooden is the best example in "recent" history. Kennedy is 23, so he's no "old man" either.

Felix Hernandez has had a very up and down career so far as well, and probably mostly due to his age and inexperience.

Indeed. While there's examples of pitchers that come up and pitch well to good during their first season, Verlander and Gallardo. There will be those that struggle during their rookie or second season. Hernandez was quite dominate when he first got called up at the end of the 05 season, then 06 he put up average numbers. Last season, he develop further and had a better season than in 06. He's off to a nice start this season, too. Point is that a couple pitchers will find success and other will struggle or just be average to start their career.

At the moment, you can conclude that Hughes and Kennedy will be awful all season based on their performances up to this point, but that's just an assumption. Will see if they become good, average or remain mediocre while maturing as pitchers. I don't believe that pressure issue has one thing to do with the issue at the moment. You can bring that issue up when their own fans start boo'ing them, which might happen soon.

[DisabledMess]

The thing is, they "did" it before. I mean pitch well. They have the tools because they proved they could pitch great games.

[LouGehrig]

There are differences between pitching under pressure and learning to pitch. Young pitchers must be allowed to develop in the minors, where the primary concern is learning to harness talent.

The young pitcher must learn how to control his pitches and in what situations to throw certain pitches.

Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba are under pressure that is different because they are young kids in New York who are supposed to step in and win. They must first learn by spending time in the minors, with little pressure, and be brought along slowly.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

There are differences between pitching under pressure and learning to pitch. Young pitchers must be allowed to develop in the minors, where the primary concern is learning to harness talent.

The young pitcher must learn how to control his pitches and in what situations to throw certain pitches.

Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba are under pressure that is different because they are young kids in New York who are supposed to step in and win. They must first learn by spending time in the minors, with little pressure, and be brought along slowly.

Amen! :bowdown:

[Pinstripes]

There are differences between pitching under pressure and learning to pitch. Young pitchers must be allowed to develop in the minors, where the primary concern is learning to harness talent.

The young pitcher must learn how to control his pitches and in what situations to throw certain pitches.

Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba are under pressure that is different because they are young kids in New York who are supposed to step in and win. They must first learn by spending time in the minors, with little pressure, and be brought along slowly.

They already know how to pitch. They've proven all they need to prove at AAA. They've shown (not just to me, but apparently to Cashman, Girardi, et al) that they understand how the game works, how pitching works, etc. They've done all those things you describe (learning to control their pitches, knowing what situations to throw what pitch in - which by the way, is more the job of the catcher and the coaches than it is the pitcher). Just becuase you haven't seen them do it this year in about 4 starts doesn't mean they don't know how to do it - they've just been unable to so far.

This isn't a question of these kids not knowing how to control their stuff. They've been pitching for years. And yes, they're still developing, but what's the point of having them put up ERAs under 3 at AAA year after year while they "develop" but learn NOTHING about what it means to pitch at the major league level.

They might as well learn about big league pitching up here. They haven't struggled due to lack of "schooling" at the minor league level. They've struggled because this is a new experience, because the weather has been cold or rainy, because it's early in the year and some guys stuggle early in the year, because we've had a harsh travel schedule. Sabathia's ERA over 11, AJ Burnett ERA over 7, Oswalt over 6, Verlander over 7 etc. Yes, those guys have an established track record, but that's not my point. The point is, sometimes the reason(s) for a guy struggling isn't the fact that they need more time in AAA.

I think they've all proven everything they need to prove at AAA. They might as well learn what it's like to pitch for the New York Yankees now (Plan A), so that one of two things happens:

1) By the end of the season, they get it together for the playoff run
2) It's too late, we miss the playoffs, but they've got a year under their belt and are ready to seriously rock the new Stadium in '09.

And all the while they can learn as they go, in the pressure situations and against quality hitters that you can't replicate in the minor leagues. They already know how to pitch for the Scranton/WB Yankees.

The alternative (Plan B) is to ship them back down, let them "develop" some more at AAA (whatever that means), while we watch Karstens, Rasner, Igawa or any other guy do just as poorly. Either that, or attempt to trade for an overrated "established veteran" starting pitcher, giving up some good young talent, only to have the established veteran pitch to a 4.5+ ERA and win an average amount of games resulting is basically nothing more than us having given away some young trading chips.

I'll take Plan A.

[LouGehrig]

They already know how to pitch. They've proven all they need to prove at AAA.

This isn't a question of these kids not knowing how to control their stuff. They've been pitching for years. And yes, they're still developing, but what's the point of having them put up ERAs under 3 at AAA year after year while they "develop" but learn NOTHING about what it means to pitch at the major league level.

Twenty- three year old Philip Hughes has pitched 275 innings in the minors. Twenty-three year old Ian Kennedy has pitched 149 innings in the minors. Twenty-two year old Joba Chamberlain has pitched 88 innings in the minors.

Hughes has pitched 28.7 innings at Triple A.
Chamberlain has pitched 8 innings at Triple A.
Kennedy has pitched 34.7 innings at Triple A.

There is much that can be learned pitching in the minors, which is why the minors exist.

[Old Sweater]

Twenty- three year old Philip Hughes has pitched 275 innings in the minors. Twenty-three year old Ian Kennedy has pitched 149 innings in the minors. Twenty-two year old Joba Chamberlain has pitched 88 innings in the minors.

Hughes has pitched 28.7 innings at Triple A.
Chamberlain has pitched 8 innings at Triple A.
Kennedy has pitched 34.7 innings at Triple A.

There is much that can be learned pitching in the minors, which is why the minors exist.

I was saying the same thing when the Yankees brought them up at the end of last year. This year I don't mind them getting their feet wet as the MLB level as long as it don't destroy their confidence and it helps the team in the long run. You can't expect the Yankees to make the playoffs every year if you use your farm system.

Chamberlain and Kennedy did pitch at the college level where the programs is considered around AA ball.