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  • Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
    DX - you must be kidding on this one. I don't think that I've ever seen someone with worse range to his glove side than ARod. In fact, the only time I've seen him make a play going to his left was yesterday, when he stepped in front of Cairo to make a bad play on a slow chop to the SS. Seriously - have you ever seen ARod go to his left to take a hit away from someone? I you have, it belongs in the archives. I've seen Jeter do it plenty of times.

    I don't understand this crazy idea of moving Jeter to center. The same reasons that people give for moving ARod to SS over Jeter are the reasons the people use to move Jeter to CF instead of ARod. Unbelievable.

    I have to make my statement again: Nothing that ARod has shown me in thelast 2 1/2 years would make me believe that he is (or ever was) a better infielder than Jeter. He has a better arm and that's about it. He can't go to his left, he can't catch a pop fly, and he has trouble judging which hop to field. He leads the team in errors. I know that apologists will say that 3rd base isn't his natural position. But he's a professional baseball player, who has had 2 1/2 years to adjust to moving 50 feet to his right. There's no excuse at this stage. As I've said all along - he has a great arm that covers for a lot of mistakes. At SS, it was less obvious. He's exposed at 3rd.
    Jeter is terrible up the middle. I'm not a big person for defensive statitics and metrics, but the stats show how poor Jeter is to his glove side. For example, range factor, which is one of the more simple and accepted defensive metrics and shows how good a player is at reaching balls, indicates just how much better A-Rod is than Jeter at SS. At SS, A-Rod's Range Factor is 4.42, which is well above the league average for his career (which his 4.15). Jeter's Range Factor, however, is only 4.09 for his career and is actually below the league average for his career (4.15). In fact, in Jeter's entire career he's only had one season with a range factor better than A-Rod's career average and that came just last year. A-Rod also has a slightly better career fielding percentage at SS than Jeter (.977 to .975), but the gap is actually bigger than the numbers would superficially indicate because A-Rod had a ton more range at SS and thus got to more balls and was involved in more plays and thus had more chances for errors at SS than Jeter.

    It also seems like you're judging A-Rod solely based on 3B when there is much, much less reaction time to get to the glove side. I used to watch A-Rod play quite a bit when he was at Texas and I've seen him make some amazing plays up the middle (one in particular comes to mind at Fenway) that Jeter could never, ever, even on his best day, make. Comparing Jeter and A-Rod defensively at SS is night and day, it's not close. Jeter has improved, but A-Rod was miles ahead before the move (as Range Factor indicates, as well as a number of other stats). Your comments tell me that you never really watched A-Rod play before he was in New York. If you did, you'd better appreciate how good he was defensively.

    I also don't understand what you mean when you say, "I don't understand this crazy idea of moving Jeter to center. The same reasons that people give for moving ARod to SS over Jeter are the reasons the people use to move Jeter to CF instead of ARod. Unbelievable." How are the reasons the same?

    1) A-Rod is the better SS, SS is arguably the most important defensive position other than catcher, so you put the better player there.

    2) Jeter would not make a good 3Bman because his gloveside range is pathetic.

    3) Jeter would make a good CFer because he's quick, has a good arm, good instincts, and goes back on fly balls as well.

    4) This is not to say that A-Rod would not also be suited for CF. However, A-Rod is taken out of the equation by virtue of the fact that he's the superior defensive SS, and his offensive output from SS gives him more value than just about anyone.
    Last edited by DoubleX; 06-12-2006, 09:48 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DoubleX
      I also don't understand what you mean when you say, "I don't understand this crazy idea of moving Jeter to center. The same reasons that people give for moving ARod to SS over Jeter are the reasons the people use to move Jeter to CF instead of ARod. Unbelievable." How are the reasons the same?

      1) A-Rod is the better SS, SS is arguably the most important defensive position other than catcher, so you put the better player there.

      2) Jeter would not make a good 3Bman because his gloveside range is pathetic.

      3) Jeter would make a good CFer because he's quick, has a good arm, good instincts, and goes back on fly balls as well.

      4) This is not to say that A-Rod would not also be suited for CF. However, A-Rod is taken out of the equation by virtue of the fact that he's the superior defensive SS, and his offensive output from SS gives him more value than just about anyone.
      I say this because:

      a. Jeter is a better SS than ARod. I've seen ARod play enough in the last 2 1/2 years to realize that he is not a great fielder. Once again - the move to 3rd base is not enough to explain his exceptionally average performance in the field. I think that the perception that ARod was a better SS comes from people with an anti-Yankee bias (Peter Gammons comes to mind).

      b. The one thing that ARod does do better than Jeter is throw. His arm would be better in CF than Jeter's.

      c. Jeter's glove side performance is better than ARod's. Again, I ask someone to point to any instance where ARod made a great play going to his left. I don't need any stats to show me that. I just need to watch a game or two.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
        I say this because:

        a. Jeter is a better SS than ARod. I've seen ARod play enough in the last 2 1/2 years to realize that he is not a great fielder. Once again - the move to 3rd base is not enough to explain his exceptionally average performance in the field. I think that the perception that ARod was a better SS comes from people with an anti-Yankee bias (Peter Gammons comes to mind).

        b. The one thing that ARod does do better than Jeter is throw. His arm would be better in CF than Jeter's.

        c. Jeter's glove side performance is better than ARod's. Again, I ask someone to point to any instance where ARod made a great play going to his left. I don't need any stats to show me that. I just need to watch a game or two.
        I don't have the exact numbers, but I'm certain that from '95 til '03 ARod did have more Total Chances, Assists, more Gold Gloves.

        Then lets look and compare the Range Factor and Zone Rating for both:

        ARod---------------Jeter
        95 RF=4.24 ZR=.820 / RF=3.83 ZR=.818
        96 RF=4.56 ZR=.846 / RF=4.52 ZR=.816
        97 RF=4.41 ZR=.848 / RF=4.45 ZR=.840
        98 RF=4.65 ZR=.863 / RF=4.25 ZR=.855
        99 RF=4.82 ZR=.843 / RF=4.00 ZR=.833
        00 RF=4.76 ZR=.893 / RF=4.12 ZR=.811
        01 RF=4.72 ZR=.853 / RF=3.81 ZR=.789
        02 RF=4.73 ZR=.919 / RF=3.81 ZR=.803
        03 RF=4.54 ZR=.859 / RF=3.75 ZR=.791

        Clearly ARod had more range and got to more balls for his zone.
        So how could you say that Jeter was a better SS?

        :radio
        Jeter's Jump In the Hole and Throw off balance is as burned into our retinas as Jordon's tongue wagging...but truth be told, he's not the best SS on his own team.

        And on the Arm thing...ARod may have a stronger arm from SS than Jeter, but I think ARod's throwing motion would negate his arm strengh from CF. ARod's throwing motion is sort of a under side arm angle....Jeter's is more over the top/ 3/4s arm angle.




        I think this would all go much smoother once SD admits that he's an ARod hater...
        "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
          I say this because:

          a. Jeter is a better SS than ARod. I've seen ARod play enough in the last 2 1/2 years to realize that he is not a great fielder. Once again - the move to 3rd base is not enough to explain his exceptionally average performance in the field. I think that the perception that ARod was a better SS comes from people with an anti-Yankee bias (Peter Gammons comes to mind).
          You didn't read anything I said about Jeter and A-Rod at SS did you? You can't judge A-Rod's SS prowess from his play at 3B. You put Jeter at 3B and he'd likely be even worse than A-Rod because A) He makes more errors as a SS, and B) he has much less range at SS than A-Rod.

          Hopefully Tony can talk some sense into you.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TonyStarks
            Jeter's Jump In the Hole and Throw off balance is as burned into our retinas as Jordon's tongue wagging...but truth be told, he's not the best SS on his own team.
            It's a beautiful play to watch, but the truth about that play probably is that he has to make the amazing effort to compensate for the fact that he can't more routinely make some of those plays. Other SSs probably don't need that extra effort on those plays because they get to those balls more easily.

            I find my position in this somewhat ironic. In the history and hall of fame forums I have in the past vigorously defended Jeter's play, particularly the shots his defense takes from sabermetricians. But I suppose conversations are all relative. Jeter is not as bad defensively as sabermetricians would insist, but he's not nearly as good a defensive SS as A-Rod and has only in the past year or two become better than an average defensive SS. Before that, he was average at best and probably below for much of his career. Whereas A-Rod was a good to very good defensive SS for most of his career. The gap in range factor between the two is almost laughable.

            Comment


            • Once again, I challenge anyone to point out the next time (or the last time) that ARod made a play going to his left.

              How many games did anyone really watch when ARod played for Seattle and Texas anyway? Like I said previously, I believed the hype before I actually got a chance to watch him play day in and day out. Unfortunately, it was just that - hype. In fact, Peter Gammons (a bigger ARod apologist than DX Tony combined), one of the guys who consistently told us that ARod was the better SS than Jeter, recently suggested that all ARod's problems stem from the fact that he should have gone to the Red Sox instead of the Yankees 3 years ago. Great analysis. And yet, this is the guy that we believed. The reason that I am an ARod "hater" is because I bought into the hype, and thought that he was a great fielder, great hitter, etc. Instead, we got a guy who hits .220 combined against the Red Sox and Mets, and is only consistent in the fact that he makes errors at key times.

              I make the comparison between ARod and Jeter by what I see with my own eyes, and unfortunately when I look at ARod, I see a guy who is a slightly above-average fielder. I get tired of hearing how a professional baseball player (the highest paid one in the game at that), who has nothing to do but learn his position, is helplessly lost after 2 1/2 years because he has a split second less to react at 3rd than he did at SS. If Jeter is a worse fielder than ARod, why do people think that it would be easier for him to have made the move to 3rd? It stands to reason that a guy who is "laughably" better would be the person to move, because he has so much more talent.
              Last edited by SD Bomber Fan; 06-13-2006, 07:13 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
                Once again, I challenge anyone to point out the next time (or the last time) that ARod made a play going to his left.

                How many games did anyone really watch when ARod played for Seattle and Texas anyway? Like I said previously, I believed the hype before I actually got a chance to watch him play day in and day out. Unfortunately, it was just that - hype. In fact, Peter Gammons (a bigger ARod apologist than DX Tony combined), one of the guys who consistently told us that ARod was the better SS than Jeter, recently suggested that all ARod's problems stem from the fact that he should have gone to the Red Sox instead of the Yankees 3 years ago. Great analysis. And yet, this is the guy that we believed. The reason that I am an ARod "hater" is because I bought into the hype, and thought that he was a great fielder, great hitter, etc. Instead, we got a guy who hits .220 combined against the Red Sox and Mets, and is only consistent in the fact that he makes errors at key times.

                I make the comparison between ARod and Jeter by what I see with my own eyes, and unfortunately when I look at ARod, I see a guy who is a slightly above-average fielder. I get tired of hearing how a professional baseball player (the highest paid one in the game at that), who has nothing to do but learn his position, is helplessly lost after 2 1/2 years because he has a split second less to react at 3rd than he did at SS. If Jeter is a worse fielder than ARod, why do people think that it would be easier for him to have made the move to 3rd? It stands to reason that a guy who is "laughably" better would be the person to move, because he has so much more talent.
                Why do you ignore every statistic we throw at you and every argument we make? I've pointed out to you that A-Rod's OPS against the Sox was around or over 0.900 the past two seasons. I've pointed out that the statistics support A-Rod not just being a better defensive SS than Jeter, but a vastly better one. I've already said that I watched quite a bit of A-Rod play before he was with the Yankees and was able to judge his SS abilities from him playing SS and not from him playing 3B (it's completely insane that you judge him as a SS based on what he does at 3B). I've explained countless times why A-Rod was more suited for 3B than Jeter (Jeter's pathetic range to his glove side, the fact that Jeter is cemented at SS in New York and would probably be playing there even over Honus Wagner himself). It also appears that you missed all of 2005. Not only was A-Rod very good defensively in 2005, but he had one of the best offensive seasons ever for a 3Bman. I can count on one hand the number of better seasons ever put up by a 3Bman. That is tremendous value.

                How about this for a "challenge?" Why don't you actually use some statistics to back up your arguments? Why don't you at least acknowledge the statistics and factual support we present instead of ignoring them and pressing unfounded arguments that show no respect for having an exchange of viewpoints? Instead of coming out of the woodwork to harp on A-Rod and Phillips and Proctor and so on when things go badly and then remain curiously silent when things are going well, why don't you support your arguments instead of just making the same unsupported statements that seem to completely ignore the evidence offered by others? Why don't you actually find some footage of A-Rod playing SS and assess his abilities at SS based on what he did at SS instead of what he does at 3B? Why don't you stop making hypothetical arguments that conveniently fit your positions (i.e. A-Rod is a worse SS than Jeter because A-Rod is a poor defensive 3Bman, or that Jeter would be better at 3B than A-Rod without anything to substantiate that claim) and instead try to say things of substance? This is why stats are kept in baseball.

                Look, we all want to have good discussion about the Yankees here. We're all in the same boat. But part of that good discussion is listening to the comments of others, considering the support and thought they've put into their comments, and being open-minded. It's ok to disagree, but when you do so at least show respect to the thoughtfulness and evidence of others instead of dismissing what they have said. If you disagree with something I've said or Tony has said or someone else has said, don't just keep going on with the same speculative point you've already made that speaks in generalities. Provide some support. That's the best way to convince someone and to keep things going good, as well as show some respect for the viewpoint and thoughtfulness of the people you are talking with. When you go on with points that seem to have ignored the comments of others, without providing any support of your own, it can be taken as a disrespect. I can respect that you don't like A-Rod, or that you like Cairo better than Phillips, and so forth. But it's hard for me to respect your positions when you don't seem to respect mine and don't support your arguments.
                Last edited by DoubleX; 06-13-2006, 09:04 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
                  Once again, I challenge anyone to point out the next time (or the last time) that ARod made a play going to his left.

                  How many games did anyone really watch when ARod played for Seattle and Texas anyway? Like I said previously, I believed the hype before I actually got a chance to watch him play day in and day out. Unfortunately, it was just that - hype. In fact, Peter Gammons (a bigger ARod apologist than DX Tony combined), one of the guys who consistently told us that ARod was the better SS than Jeter, recently suggested that all ARod's problems stem from the fact that he should have gone to the Red Sox instead of the Yankees 3 years ago. Great analysis. And yet, this is the guy that we believed. The reason that I am an ARod "hater" is because I bought into the hype, and thought that he was a great fielder, great hitter, etc. Instead, we got a guy who hits .220 combined against the Red Sox and Mets, and is only consistent in the fact that he makes errors at key times.

                  I make the comparison between ARod and Jeter by what I see with my own eyes, and unfortunately when I look at ARod, I see a guy who is a slightly above-average fielder. I get tired of hearing how a professional baseball player (the highest paid one in the game at that), who has nothing to do but learn his position, is helplessly lost after 2 1/2 years because he has a split second less to react at 3rd than he did at SS. If Jeter is a worse fielder than ARod, why do people think that it would be easier for him to have made the move to 3rd? It stands to reason that a guy who is "laughably" better would be the person to move, because he has so much more talent.
                  You may wish to post your anti-Alex Rodriguez stuff into another forum such as CE (Current Events). Here on BBF, it's one of those unwritten rules that I like being enforced whereby your don't trash a player on that team's forum. If you have reasonable criticism, I say fine, but at least don't bring this Gammons thing here. Lupica is another one I'm not too crazy about.

                  I've had my share of criticism of Alex Rodriguez also, but I think that his issue isn't some business of his not going to the Red Sox, which Gammons, a bigger Red Sox fan than Ben Affleck, would've obviously have preferred (and trumpeted to no end). I believe that Alex is in a major slump right now, and had he not had to concentrate on learning a new position, he wouldn't have had to think about what he was doing so much. I believe it's one of those situations where someone did something so fluidly, it was like breathing or walking, but now has to think about every breath or step, which makes things more complex. Not ideal, and I'd have thought he wouldn't enter an extended slump, but he's human, just like Mariano, Derek and anyone else who fails us at times.

                  I believe that if Alex were to have stayed at SS and Jeter would've moved to 3B, that Alex would've been better able to contribute to the team defensively, and thus, not think about his offense so much, as SS would've been a no-brainer for him, which is exactly where 28 other teams would've put him had they traded for him from Texas.

                  I've gotten burned in my criticism of Alex Rodriguez on another board, but lest your memory be so short-termed, think to yourself whether we'd have made the 2005 playoffs without Alex' help. True, the timing of those big hits may not have been as properly placed as some would like, but quite frankly, a win is a win, whether it's 10-3 or 3-2. He has failed us at times, but then again, so do most top batters at a rate usually greater than 2 out of 3 times, if one's batting average were to be peaked at.

                  Instead of lauding what a failure he is, why not consider that he may need to be given a day off, pushed down in the lineup right now. I'm getting a bit tired of the boo-birds at Yankee Stadium. Everyone has slumps, and it's not like Alex will be going anyplace anytime soon.

                  Take a chill pill, get together with a few fellow baseball fans, buy yourself some soda pop, hot dogs, peanuts, Cracker Jack, sit back and enjoy the game sometime. That's what it's there for!
                  Last edited by Mattingly; 06-13-2006, 09:23 PM.
                  Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                  Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                  THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                  Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mattingly
                    Lupica is another one I'm not too crazy about.
                    Ugh, Lupica. Summer of '98 is one of the worst books I've ever read. I wonder how he feels about that book now given all the steroids swirl around McGwire and Sosa and the game in general in '98. He tried to paint the picture of the game returning to some innocent and glorious time, reminiscent of what it was like to be a fan in an earlier time, with him as the leader of the good times bandwagon. But as it turns out, '98 really just stands for everything that's been wrong with the game over the past 15-20 years.

                    Yeah I know this isn't at all Yankees related, but I generally can't stand Lupica's work. His arguments in favor of Ortiz being the MVP over Rodriguez last year was enough for me. I could see the arguments for Ortiz, but Ortiz's candidacy had to consider the DH, and if memory serves me right, Lupica right off the bat said that the DH shouldn't be a factor. When it comes to baseball at least, I don't think he gets it.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DoubleX
                      Ugh, Lupica. Summer of '98 is one of the worst books I've ever read. I wonder how he feels about that book now given all the steroids swirl around McGwire and Sosa and the game in general in '98. He tried to paint the picture of the game returning to some innocent and glorious time, reminiscent of what it was like to be a fan in an earlier time, with him as the leader of the good times bandwagon. But as it turns out, '98 really just stands for everything that's been wrong with the game over the past 15-20 years.

                      Yeah I know this isn't at all Yankees related, but I generally can't stand Lupica's work. His arguments in favor of Ortiz being the MVP over Rodriguez last year was enough for me. I could see the arguments for Ortiz, but Ortiz's candidacy had to consider the DH, and if memory serves me right, Lupica right off the bat said that the DH shouldn't be a factor. When it comes to baseball at least, I don't think he gets it.
                      I've said it once and I'll say it again: Mike Lupica to the Yanks is what Dan "CHB" (Curly-Haired Boyfriend, per Carl Everett) Shaughnessy is to the Red Sox. He's been grating upon the team, getting upon them for all their failures. Mike Lupica is also a Red Sox fan writing for a NYC paper. Heck, CHB even appeared in a YES special on "The Curse" around 2003. If that's not as violative of the New England sportswriters' "unwritten rules" as they come, then what the heck is?

                      Only one article of his have I posted here, and that was a rare one which complimented the pen. Otherwise, his annual blasting of the Yanks if/when they lose seems very hypocritical, considering all the advertising dollars his paper loses because the Yanks haven't made the WS. That "early exit" after the ALDS or losing the ALCS doesn't provide the advertising dollars from Modell's and other sports and corporate giants willing to attach themselves to the Yankee name. This especially if the Yanks win the WS.

                      We look towards October, and all Lupica can say is "Bah, Humbug!" I'll pass.
                      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                      Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                      THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                      Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DoubleX
                        How about this for a "challenge?" Why don't you actually use some statistics to back up your arguments?
                        Here's a statistic for you: He leads the team in errors. All the stats such as range, etc. are meaningless when you can't field the ball. This, after all, is the one stat that really mattters in the field.

                        Originally posted by DoubleX
                        Instead of coming out of the woodwork to harp on A-Rod and Phillips and Proctor and so on when things go badly and then remain curiously silent when things are going well, why don't you support your arguments instead of just making the same unsupported statements that seem to completely ignore the evidence offered by others?
                        This isn't quite accurate. I stated last week that I was absolutely wrong about Phillips. However, I have yet to see you admit any such thing about ARod. This stuff is just my opinion. Please try not to take it so personally.

                        Originally posted by Mattingly
                        If you have reasonable criticism, I say fine, but at least don't bring this Gammons thing here. Lupica is another one I'm not too crazy about.
                        I had no idea that pointing out that Gammons is an ARod apologist and Red Sox fan was so offensive. It was just an observation, and was not meant to offend anyone. Again, please try not to take it personally.
                        Last edited by SD Bomber Fan; 06-13-2006, 10:13 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
                          I had no idea that pointing out that Gammons is an ARod apologist and Red Sox fan was so offensive. It was just an observation, and was not meant to offend anyone. Again, please try not to take it personally.
                          Like I said earlier, he needs a few days off. I'm hoping that Torre can see that, and put him lower in the lineup upon his return. However, this is the same Torre that kept a poor-hitting Soriano as our leadoff for a few years.

                          Today, he went 0-for-4. Not very good. You have a point, in that he's got the 2nd highest error total (11) in MLB among 3Bmen. One more reason to give him a few days off, I say.

                          I don't even watch TV much, so fault me if you wish. Still, I don't worry about Gammons and his crazy predictions or whatever. His opinion of the Yanks isn't my priority. If he has any constructive criticism to offer, I'll listen. Otherwise, I won't bother.

                          In the meanwhile, try not making Alex out to be the worst player that ever played the game. It's not like he's Bob Uecker or anything. He's human, so right now, he's not doing so well. Check back around the beginning of July and we'll talk.
                          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                          Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                          THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                          Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
                            Here's a statistic for you: He leads the team in errors. All the stats such as range, etc. are meaningless when you can't field the ball. This, after all, is the one stat that really mattters in the field.



                            This isn't quite accurate. I stated last week that I was absolutely wrong about Phillips. However, I have yet to see you admit any such thing about ARod. This stuff is just my opinion. Please try not to take it so personally.



                            I had no idea that pointing out that Gammons is an ARod apologist and Red Sox fan was so offensive. It was just an observation, and was not meant to offend anyone. Again, please try not to take it personally.
                            Dude...honestly. I am not here 'riding' you as you are ARod..>BUT<
                            When you GET to MORE balls then of course LOGIC states that your chances of making Errors will increase! Therefore your argument about range isn't necessarily true. The Higher the range, the more range, means that you'll get more opportunities to make plays.....but also make errors. What were you saying about Jeter in '96 and in .00?? I believe he led the team and league in errrors for SS. (I'm checking this now)

                            We understand that you riding ARod is part of your opinion that you don't like him but I've shown you actual numbers which disprove everything you say about AROD vs Jeter in the Fielding dept. yet you don't acknowledge them. I can understand that you speak of what you see, but when your shown actual numbers....at least backtrack in your words and stop arguing against facts.


                            Here's some more numbers for you:

                            ARod vs Jeter head to head @ SS ...Minus the last 2 full seasons:

                            ARod ------- Jeter
                            Games 1272 / 1209
                            Chances 5756 / 4964
                            Range 4.63 / 4.19
                            Errors 131 / 166

                            Can we finally put that to bed? Will this finally end the silly debate?
                            "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TonyStarks
                              When you GET to MORE balls then of course LOGIC states that your chances of making Errors will increase!
                              That would be great, except for the fact that there's a little thing called "FIELDING PERCENTAGE" which takes into account the number of ERRORS per CHANCE. ARod's is .941. Jeter's is .971. Make whatever excuses you want for ARod, but it is what it is.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
                                That would be great, except for the fact that there's a little thing called "FIELDING PERCENTAGE" which takes into account the number of ERRORS per CHANCE. ARod's is .941. Jeter's is .971. Make whatever excuses you want for ARod, but it is what it is.
                                Fielding percentage? I think I'd once checked and Johnny Bench had about the same as Mike Piazza. What was A-Rod's FP in Seattle and Texas?

                                To me, if he boots the ball, he does. I'd much rather he not, but it can't be undone.

                                Who's to decide which ball he should've gotten to? Was that person there watching the game?

                                Man, I need some sleep, but at least I'm not ragging endlessly on one player.

                                If A-Rod turns it around, then what happens to your posts?
                                Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                                Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                                THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                                Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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