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  • A-Rod's first series

    After watching the first series of the season, I realized that it was a microcosm of everything that I believe about A-Rod. On the surface, he had a great series. He went 5 for 13, and had 5 RBIs, and a grand slam. He had an OBP of .467. Terriffic. Unfortunately, a closer look shows what really happened: He got 3 of his 5 hits and all of his RBIs in a game that the Yanks won by 13 runs. In the second game of the series (one that the Yanks lost by 1 run) he came to the plate with runners on 2nd and 3rd and no outs, and struck out (not that he was the only culprit there). Later in the game, he did get a single with Shef on second and two outs, but didn't drive in the run, and got thrown out on a baserunning error. (I'm guessing that he gets credit for a hit with a RISP, even though the run didn't score, and he made the 3rd out.) In his last 2 at bats, he struck out with a runner on 2nd, and grounded out with a runner on 2nd. In game three, he didn't get a hit, grounded into a DP, and struck out with a runner on 2nd.

    Now I certainly recognize that this is only one series, and that there were plenty of other Yankees who failed to perform in key situations. My point here is that A-Rod consistently produces MVP numbers, but somehow still misses the mark. At the end of the season (or even at the mid-season point) we can look back and bring out all the statistics that show how great A-Rod is. However, the statistics don't always tell the story, and this series was to me a block of classic A-Rod: great numbers, little real impact. Fortunately, he has the rest of the season to prove me wrong.
    Last edited by SD Bomber Fan; 04-05-2006, 10:41 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
    After watching the first series of the season, I realized that it was a microcosm of everything that I believe about A-Rod. On the surface, he had a great series. He went 5 for 13, and had 5 RBIs, and a grand slam. He had an OBP of .467. Terriffic. Unfortunately, a closer look shows what really happened: He got 3 of his 5 hits and all of his RBIs in a game that the Yanks won by 13 runs. In the second game of the series (one that the Yanks lost by 1 run) he came to the plate with runners on 2nd and 3rd and no outs, and struck out (not that he was the only culprit there). Later in the game, he did get a single with Shef on second and two outs, but didn't drive in the run, and got thrown out on a baserunning error. (I'm guessing that he gets credit for a hit with a RISP, even though the run didn't score, and he made the 3rd out.) In his last 2 at bats, he struck out with a runner on 2nd, and grounded out with a runner on 2nd. In game three, he didn't get a hit, grounded into a DP, and struck out with a runner on 2nd.

    Now I certainly recognize that this is only one series, and that there were plenty of other Yankees who failed to perform in key situations. My point here is that A-Rod consistently produces MVP numbers, but somehow still misses the mark. At the end of the season (or even at the mid-season point) we can look back and bring out all the statistics that show how great A-Rod is. However, the statistics don't always tell the story, and this series was to me a block of classic A-Rod: great numbers, little real impact. Fortunately, he has the rest of the season to prove me wrong.
    It's why you really need to see a guy play everyday to understand his full value to the team. 90% of the guys who vote for MVP only know this :atthepc about ARod's stats. They don't see him everyday.

    Comment


    • #3
      It should be noted that when A-Rod hit his slam, the score was about 3-0. His HR officially blew the game open.

      Yes, I do wish that he'd hit more in the next two games. However, after a blowout, everyone's tired. I think they should've all been removed after the 7th inning.

      I'd like to see him drive in a few runs in very close games. The season has just begun, so I can't say what he'll do down the road. He could have a great series in Anaheim, but he could also have a poor one. It's up to him to rise to the challenge. Right now, there's very little to go on, other than 3 games.
      Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
      Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
      THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
      Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

      Comment


      • #4
        This is ridiculous. Is it A-Rod's fault that the team left nearly 30 runners on base in 3 games? Is it A-Rod's fault that Sheffield and Posada in particular kept tanking with runners in scoring position (A-Rod often being one of those runners)? Is it A-Rod's fault that Jeter and Cano made fielding errors at key times? Is it A-Rod's fault that Torre brought in Proctor and Wright?

        The expectations on A-Rod are unreal. One man cannot do it all. When a team loses 9-4, that has nothing to do with just one player (unless that player is a pitcher that just completely stunk). You take A-Rod off last year's team and that team doesn't the make the playoffs. He basically carried that sorry team for the first three months of the season.
        Last edited by DoubleX; 04-06-2006, 07:07 AM.

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        • #5
          If you add up all the runners that every batter LOB (instead of just how many runners were LOB per inning), the Yankees as a team, combined to leave 57 runners on base. You're going to pin that on A-Rod?! Do you know how many of those 57 A-Rod left? 8. He left 1/24 in Game 1, 5/22 in Game 2, and 2/11 in Game 3. Here's how everyone else faired, and then tell me why A-Rod should be singled out for the failure to win here more than anyone else?

          Johnny Damon: 2
          Derek Jeter: 3
          Gary Sheffield: 8
          Bubba Crosby: 2
          Alex Rodriguez: 8
          Jason Giambi: 6
          Andy Phillips: 2
          Hideki Matsui: 4
          Jorge Posada: 9
          Bernie Williams: 7
          Robinson Cano: 6

          It seems to me thaht Sheffield, Giambi, Posada, Williams, and Cano all had their share of futility as well. This was a team failure.

          It's just completely ridiculous to think that a player can put up the type of numbers that A-Rod does on a yearly basis and to think that they do not have a positive effect on the team. The numbers are just too prolific.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DoubleX
            This is ridiculous. Is it A-Rod's fault that the team left nearly 30 runners on base in 3 games? Is it A-Rod's fault that Sheffield and Posada in particular kept tanking with runners in scoring position (A-Rod often being one of those runners)? Is it A-Rod's fault that Jeter and Cano made fielding errors at key times? Is it A-Rod's fault that Torre brought in Proctor and Wright?
            If you had read my post, you would note that I never mentioned that it was A-Rod's fault that the team lost the last two games of the series. I fully understand that the rest of the team performed poorly. I was merely stating that this three game series was a capsule of what I believe A-Rod is all about - great numbers with little value.

            Originally posted by Mattingly
            It should be noted that when A-Rod hit his slam, the score was about 3-0. His HR officially blew the game open.
            It should also be noted that the GS was in the top of the 2nd inning, with 0 outs, and the Yanks already up by 3 runs against a pitcher who was clearly struggling. Five months from now, the Yanks will be in a pennant race. And there will come a time when A-Rod will step up to the plate in the 8th inning w/ bases loaded and two outs, down by two runs. Let's hope he can get the same result then.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
              If you had read my post, you would note that I never mentioned that it was A-Rod's fault that the team lost the last two games of the series. I fully understand that the rest of the team performed poorly. I was merely stating that this three game series was a capsule of what I believe A-Rod is all about - great numbers with little value.
              And my point is that it's unfair single out and judge A-Rod on this series when everyone else on the team performed just the same way, and with the exception of Damon and Matsui, worse than A-Rod.

              It's impossible for such prolific numbers to not have value over the course of a season.

              It's amazing how the Yankees can have the best and most well-rounded player on the planet and fans still find a myriad of reasons to harp on his performance.

              Why don't we just get rid of A-Rod? Do you think that's the solution? Certainly if you believe his prolific numbers have almost no value, you'd be fine with some journeyman veteran playing 3B for the Yankees instead of A-Rod

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
                If you had read my post, you would note that I never mentioned that it was A-Rod's fault that the team lost the last two games of the series. I fully understand that the rest of the team performed poorly. I was merely stating that this three game series was a capsule of what I believe A-Rod is all about - great numbers with little value.
                Basically, since it's the beginning of the season, people tend to pick up where they left off. I think it'll take awhile before he comes around and gets that 2-run single we need to win a game, but April is to me, an extended spring training. If in the 1st week of May, this is still an issue, then I think we've got a problem here.
                It should also be noted that the GS was in the top of the 2nd inning, with 0 outs, and the Yanks already up by 3 runs against a pitcher who was clearly struggling. Five months from now, the Yanks will be in a pennant race. And there will come a time when A-Rod will step up to the plate in the 8th inning w/ bases loaded and two outs, down by two runs. Let's hope he can get the same result then.
                No guarantees of any pennant race. I'd like to think so, but sometimes the Yanks just lost to poor teams. Check out being swept in a 4-gamer at Kaufman by the Royals in 2005.

                It's games like that when we are down by a few runs, even if down by 3, if he can add 2 runs, then the game becomes within reach. If tied, a single run gives us a save opportunity, will surely affect the choie of available pitchers that Torre uses.

                I agree with you that the timing of the offense is very important, per "timely hits". I just think it's too early to cast judgment upon him.
                Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
                Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
                THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
                Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's kinda early....but seems like the ARod bashing has begun.

                  Some fans, even Yankee fans, will never be 100% happy with what ARod gives them.

                  I do not believe there are realistic numbers that ARod couuld reach that would make everyone happy unless he hits .378 with .538 OBP w/88 HRs & 256 RBIs. Oh and he cannot make any errors, but must make 3 outstanding plays a night.

                  Maybe we should bring back Charlie Hayes? Randy Velarde? Luis Aguayo? Aaron Boone? Mike Pagliaruolo? Mike Gallego?
                  "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TonyStarks
                    It's kinda early....but seems like the ARod bashing has begun.

                    Some fans, even Yankee fans, will never be 100% happy with what ARod gives them.

                    I do not believe there are realistic numbers that ARod couuld reach that would make everyone happy unless he hits .378 with .538 OBP w/88 HRs & 256 RBIs. Oh and he cannot make any errors, but must make 3 outstanding plays a night.

                    Maybe we should bring back Charlie Hayes? Randy Velarde? Luis Aguayo? Aaron Boone? Mike Pagliaruolo? Mike Gallego?
                    I'm thankful you're around Tony to help keep A-Rod in perspective. I'd probably go insane around here if I was by myself.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There's a term applied to athletes called "intangibles." Many people don't believe in it. Usually, it is a positive thing to say that a player has intangibles. In simple terms, when a player has intangibles, it means that the player's value to the team is somehow greater than that player's individual numbers indicate that his value should be. In football, the term is applied to a guy like Tom Brady - he doesn't have gaudy numbers, but he almost always wins. Like it or not, in baseball the term is most closely linked with Derek Jeter. Jeter's two signature plays, the dive into the stands against the Red Sox in 2004, and play at the plate against the A's in the 2001 playoffs will never show up in a stat book. It would be hard to quantify the value of those plays, but they were both game changing, momentum swinging plays.

                      However, this is not about Jeter, and my criticisms of A-Rod are not because I somehow like Jeter more than A-Rod - Jeter is far from perfect. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that I will dislike A-Rod no matter what he does. It's just that I don't blindly look at his impressive numbers and applaud. My criticisms of A-Rod stem from the fact that I believe him to be the antithesis of an athlete with intangibles. A-Rod certainly puts up great numbers. However, I believe that the numbers he generates make him look more valuable than he really is. The reason I posted after the first series is because I believe that if you watch A-Rod throughout the season, you will see him have a large number of series like this, where he puts up great numbers, many of which are essentially meaningless (although I really hope that he proves me wrong). At the end of the season, everyone will look back in awe at his BA, RBIs, HRs, etc., and there will be no way to tell how much they helped the team. Obviously, some of his RBIs, HRs, etc. will help the team, but just not as much as the numbers would make us think.

                      By the way, I seem to remember Charlie Hayes catching a pop fly for the last out of a world series. I have yet to see A-Rod do that. The Yanks somehow managed to win when they had more role players and fewer A-Rods.
                      Last edited by SD Bomber Fan; 04-06-2006, 06:49 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SD Bomber Fan
                        However, this is not about Jeter, and my criticisms of A-Rod are not because I somehow like Jeter more than A-Rod - Jeter is far from perfect. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that I will dislike A-Rod no matter what he does. It's just that I don't blindly look at his impressive numbers and applaud. My criticisms of A-Rod stem from the fact that I believe him to be the antithesis of an athlete with intangibles. A-Rod certainly puts up great numbers. However, I believe that the numbers he generates make him look more valuable than he really is. The reason I posted after the first series is because I believe that if you watch A-Rod throughout the season, you will see him have a large number of series like this, where he puts up great numbers, many of which are essentially meaningless (although I really hope that he proves me wrong). At the end of the season, everyone will look back in awe at his BA, RBIs, HRs, etc., and there will be no way to tell how much they helped the team. Obviously, some of his RBIs, HRs, etc. will help the team, but just not as much as the numbers would make us think.

                        By the way, I seem to remember Charlie Hayes catching a pop fly for the last out of a world series. I have yet to see A-Rod do that. The Yanks somehow managed to win when they had more role players and fewer A-Rods.
                        SD, wouldn't you say it was Yankee pitching that lead to those Rings and the pitching hasn't been the same since the signing of Mussina? The bullpen was better then and so was the starting pitching. There was timely hitting from all over the lineup. Boggs, Bernie, Jeter, Darryl, Fielder, Chili, Paulie, Duncan, Spencer, Leyritz, Posada, Soriano, Tino and many others. And I do agree with you on the Yanks winning when they had more role players, but again you cannot blame ARod for the Yankees Championship-less years. I would blame the pitching and mainly the bullpen meltdowns.

                        You say your not bashing, but it seems like you keep picking on ARod?
                        It's like you have this thing for him, or so it seems. Maybe it's subliminal.
                        You say the Yanks won when they had fewer ARods....but before ARod came Giambi, Mussina, Matsui, and many others.
                        Why must you make it a point to note that the Yanks haven't won with 'ARods'?? There were plenty of All-Stars who passed thru the Bronx after 2001 and they didn't bring NY a championship.

                        So you wouldn't want someone who averages: .307AVG .385 OBP .577 SLG 44HR 125RBI 20+ Steals 127 Runs (Note: 151 Runs Created)
                        Where would the Yanks have been last season if not for ARod?

                        I could not find a listing of the Top Runs Creators by League...if anyone could find that info it would be greatly appreciated.
                        Last edited by TonyStarks; 04-07-2006, 05:28 PM.
                        "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TonyStarks
                          Why must you make it a point to note that the Yanks haven't won with 'ARods'??
                          Because you made the statement "Maybe we should bring back Charlie Hayes? Randy Velarde? Luis Aguayo? Aaron Boone? Mike Pagliaruolo? Mike Gallego?", meaning that the Yanks are much better off with A-Rod at 3rd base, as opposed to any of the people listed. If you listed a group of 1st basemen, I would have said that the Yanks haven't won with the Giambis.

                          As far as the pitching is concerned, I absolutely despise Mussina. He has quietly sucked up a good percentage of the Yank's $$$, with very little production. The rest of the pitching staff has been average at best. However, the Yankee braintrust has decided to try to win with offense, rather than pitching and defense. Fine. Unfortunately, the offense never seems to produce the way it's supposed to produce. If the Yanks were losing games 12-10, I would complain about the pitching. However, 4-3 losses with this lineup are unacceptable, especially when the Yanks can't buy a hit with runners in scoring position.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wells Yanks really stunk up the joint today again.
                            Sheff comes up bags full and 1 out and GIDP. *SMH*

                            I've also never really liked Moose.
                            They brought him in to be the Ace but I never really felt that Moose was an 'Ace' to begin with. He's been a bit above average in the Bronx while picking up one of the biggest paychecks for a pitcher.

                            As for ARod, I don't feel that he deserves to continue to take shots...especially from Yankee fans. ARod plays day in and day out and he produces. Although not at every single opportunity, he is still a force and run producing machine.

                            RC by the Line-Up for '05
                            Damon: 101
                            Jeter: 112
                            ARod: 151
                            Sheff: 112
                            Giambi: 94
                            Matsui: 115
                            Posada: 72
                            Cano: 76
                            Bernie: 58
                            "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I still can't believe people continue to act like A-Rod has never had big hits in the postseason. He had the key hits in two extra-inning wins in the 2004 ALDS, hit great in the first 3 games of the ALCS, and had what would have been the game-winning homer in game 4 if the Yanks' bullpen hadn't blown it. In the 2005 ALDS, he was pitched around so much that he had a .400+ OBP despite hitting below .200. The only times he has been truly bad in the postseason was the last 3 games of the 2004 ALCS, when Boston's pitching was absolutely great.

                              As for the argument about him only hitting well in blowouts, you're going to need to do some actual research to get me to believe that. All hitters have better stats in blowouts, sometimes the reason they're blowouts is because that particular player hits so well. Here's a link to a short analysis of the "A-Rod isn't clutch" argument: http://baseballcrank.com/archives2/2...l_the_bl_2.php

                              Among other things, it shows that in games the Yankees won by 4 runs or more A-Rod did most of his damage in his first and second PA's. The fact that him and his teammates piled on after he got things started doesn't mean we should say those hits early in the game weren't important.

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