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Ichiro to hall of fame?

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  • Ichiro to hall of fame?

    I'm glancing at his numbers here... He's 32 now, 2 batting titles under his belt, an MVP/ROY season, the hits record, Gold gloves, 1130 hits so far.

    Say he has 4 or 5 more 200 hit seasons, and wins another batting title and a few more gold gloves. Would 2000 hits be enough to get him into the Hall of Fame? Also, how far can popularity get a player in this process?

    I say he makes it in. What are your guys' thoughts?

  • #2
    Yes he should go to the HOF - especially if they count his Japanese stats.

    He holds the single season hits record, which is a tremendous record (but S.S. records don't get you into the HOF all on their own - ask Maris). So we need to look at more than that. He also has compiled 200+ hits in his first 5 seasons, something few others have done (his 262 is something no other has done - and his 242 from '01 is still top 10 all-time). He is a speedster on the bases, with 30+ stolen bases all 5 years here (with a league-leading 56 in 2001). Was an/the integral part to the Mariner's amazing 216 win season in 2001 as well, in which he won both the MVP, and ROY in the same year. He is the best defensive outfielder playing today, with help from his speed. He also has an all-time great glove and arm (the arm especially - he could have been a pitcher - 90+ MPH!). And from that, Ichiro has won a Gold Glove award each year here in the the Majors. He also holds the distinction of being the first Japanese-born position player in the Majors - so with that and what he has done offensively and defensively, imo, he has already earned a spot in the HOF, and is starting to garner more support each season.

    Just to continue with this a little more, he already has 2400+ hits (MLB + Japan), but if he had played in the Majors from age 20 (the age that he actually started full-time in Japan), with the aid of the longer MLB seasons (from 135(?) to 162), he would have possibly 2600+ hits, all by age 32! So by the end, he could easily have 3000+ hits (in 3 full seasons)! He is also an exciting player to watch. He can do so much. I love to watch him foul off 6 or 7 pitches, just waiting for his pitch, and hitting it sharply to the SS, and yet still making it to first safely with an infield single. He is known for his batting average, but when it dropped a bit this last season, what did he we see - a little increase in power, to help make up for it. Some will say that it wasn't a lot - and it wasn't, but an extra 4-5 triples, and 4-5 homeruns helps when you only are getting 206 hits. He brings a huge audience, on TV, and tourists coming to see him (from Japan AND the US). He also has helped other players come over, but the only "comparable" player is Matsui, but his move over here to the US, was another step to help "integrate" the MLB. So yes, he is HOF worthy in my book.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by KillaK
      Would 2000 hits be enough to get him into the Hall of Fame?
      I would say no. The 3000 benchmark seems to have been breached at a faster pace in the past 20 years than any years before it. Granted Ichiro has fantastic defensive skills, he'd need to average .330/ year to even be considered. Just my $.02.
      WAR? Prove it!

      Trusted Traders: ttmman21, Dalkowski110, BoofBonser26, Kearns643, HudsonHarden, Extra Innings, MadHatter, Mike D., J.P., SShifflett

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      • #4
        If Ichiro can get seven more years without a large dropoff, he's in. 12 years is all it took for Kirby Puckett to be a first ballot HOF'er. The Japanese League play would be noted on his HOF plaque, but when it comes to voting won't need to be taken into consideration.
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        • #5
          I wrote an article on this last year which is posted here: http://baseballguru.com/jalbright/an...lbright31.html

          Jim Albright
          Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
          Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
          A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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          • #6
            no doubt ichiro is a historic player. he is the first japanese position player to play regularly for as long as he has in the field. however you cannot factor in his japanese numbers. yes it is a professional league but it is a lesser league than the major league baseball. Ichiro likely could have played in the major leagues his whole career and played well, however there are alot of guys who spent several years in AAA and succeeded and those numbers are not factored into hall of fame voting either. if ichiro plays until hes 40, he should have about 13 years under his belt, if he keeps getting 200 hits a year he will be close to 3000, he will likely have close to all of those years at or around 100 runs scored, he will likely have a career batting average well over .300, he will go down as one of the best defensive outfielders ever. hall of fame voters tend to look at sustained excellence as much or more than career numbers, he has 4 excellent years under his belt and 1 very good year. the one thing that could hold ichiro out if all those numbers arent enough however, is team success. if the mariners dont turn it around soon, ichiro will need to get on a serious contender, with close-to hall of fame numbers i believe a ring or two would push him over the top.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose
              If Ichiro can get seven more years without a large dropoff, he's in. 12 years is all it took for Kirby Puckett to be a first ballot HOF'er. The Japanese League play would be noted on his HOF plaque, but when it comes to voting won't need to be taken into consideration.
              Puckett won 2 World Series titles, drove in way more runs than Ichiro and was overall a more complete player. Ichiro would have to start stealing more bases along with bringing a title to Seattle for him to make a legitimate case.
              WAR? Prove it!

              Trusted Traders: ttmman21, Dalkowski110, BoofBonser26, Kearns643, HudsonHarden, Extra Innings, MadHatter, Mike D., J.P., SShifflett

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              • #8
                He deserves it, even though I don't like having his first name on the back of his jersey
                It should be SUZUKI.....not ICHIRO
                REMEMBER THE EXPOS

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gjm130
                  He deserves it, even though I don't like having his first name on the back of his jersey
                  It should be SUZUKI.....not ICHIRO
                  It's part of his aura. Suzuki was so common in Japan, so they put Ichiro on there. I personally like it, as Ichiro sounds a lot cooler (to me) than Suzuki. And because he had it like that in Japan, there was no reason to change that when he came to the US. But I'm glad to hear that you think he is Hall worthy as well.

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                  • #10
                    To even suggest a singles hitter after five years in the league should be put in the HoF is absurd. The guy has an .819 OPS as a corner OF and you want to put him in the HoF?? He has a lot more work to do. What he did in Japan stays in Japan.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KCGHOST
                      To even suggest a singles hitter after five years in the league should be put in the HoF is absurd. The guy has an .819 OPS as a corner OF and you want to put him in the HoF?? He has a lot more work to do. What he did in Japan stays in Japan.

                      Aside from the impressive stats he produced over the past five years, he was the first. A pioneer. That does have meaning but is hard to quantify.
                      As one who lived in Japan for a number of years with many relatives over there I can tell you that there was a lot of fear that their best everyday player couldn't make it here or would be an average player.
                      Many of us here in Seattle had a similar fear. But he demonstrated that a damn good player there could equate to a damn good player here. He made it easier for a Matsui and the rest to come here as everyday players.

                      Will he go into the HOF? It's early. Give the man more than 5 years to define his career. But in 5 years earning the MVP/ROY/5 Gold Gloves, breaking a record held 80 plus years and all isn't a bad start.
                      Watch his game on a regular basis and you see a very complete player. You will see why Pinella ranked Ichiro as the best rightfielder he ever saw.
                      Last edited by johnny; 01-29-2006, 06:27 PM.
                      Johnny
                      Delusion, Life's Coping Mechanism

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KCGHOST
                        To even suggest a singles hitter after five years in the league should be put in the HoF is absurd. The guy has an .819 OPS as a corner OF and you want to put him in the HoF?? He has a lot more work to do. What he did in Japan stays in Japan.
                        And what's your stance on Negro League players who never played a major league game in their careers, yet are already in the Hall?

                        I never said that his 5 years alone make him Hall worthy, but I do count his Japanese stats, because he has proven that he could have put up those kind of numbers in that time frame. If you can be the best player in Japan for 7+ years, (such as accumulating 7 CONSECUTIVE batting titles), and then do the same here in the US (not to mention being only 1 of 3 players with 2 seasons of 230+ hits, the all-time single season hits record, and MVP, an all-time great glove and arm, complimented by his 5 GG's in 5 years, his great work on the bases, his .332 BA, just to name a few), proves to most reasonable people that his Japanese numbers should count. Plus he is a huge ambassador for the game, being the first Japanese born Position Player in MLB history, bringing in a huge new market, and bringing in new talent from around the world, says to me that he has done enough on and off the field to deserve induction.

                        If you want to talk numbers, then lets look at his numbers. Through age 31, he has:

                        2408 hits
                        1350 runs
                        389 stolen bases
                        and if he plays another 5 years, will have numbers looking like:

                        3,000+ hits
                        1800 + runs
                        500+ stolen bases

                        and this is on top of the fabulous defense he has put up, garnering multiple GG's in both leagues, and is widely regarded as the best defensive outfielder of today.

                        So I am sorry that you feel this way about Ichiro, and I hope his continued success here in the MLB will help change your mind.

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                        • #13
                          If we are counting his Japanese performance, then yes absolutely he should be in the Hall. If we're going by only his MLB performance, then he has a lot of work to do. He's only had 5 full seasons thus far and his 121 OPS+ as a corner OF is not HOF caliber. If he has about 7 more good years and puts up some pretty good career counting stats then he'll merit HOF induction to me.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KCGHOST
                            To even suggest a singles hitter after five years in the league should be put in the HoF is absurd. The guy has an .819 OPS as a corner OF and you want to put him in the HoF?? He has a lot more work to do. What he did in Japan stays in Japan.
                            I agree that you shouldn't count his Japaneese numbers when discussing him- it is, after all, the NATIONAL baseball hall of fame (national, as in AMERICAN nation). However, he does hold a pretty esteemed record, which matters alot to voters. He's immensily popular in both Japan and America- He's with only a handful of other athletes that have been popular nationwide that play in Seattle (Griffey, ARod, the Unit and possibly Gary Payton are the only other ones I can think of). It's the hall of FAME, not just numbers.

                            Plus, he's the kind of guy who changes a team with what he brings to the table, even if all he can do at the dish is hit singles. In 2001, he singlehandedly uplifted a very mediocre Mariners lineup into being one of the best in baseball that season.

                            Will the voters think about all that in 10-15 years when he appears on the ballot? I don't know, although I have my doubts. A WS title or some other milestone (maybe 3000?? or a .325 career average??) would put alot of backing to his claim. Plus, perhaps the steroid era will turn voters off of sluggers and force them to hit 600+ homers to get in, and appreciate guys like Ichiro, who would have been a stud in any era.

                            So I say he's in (strike that- he'll BE in, if he keeps it up). He's one of few perennial All-Stars in the game, a guy that has been a monument of 21st century baseball- I'd only put Pujols, Bonds, and Alex Rodriguez and possibly David Ortiz and Manny Ramierez in the same or higher class than Ichiro.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              he is on pace for the hall, no doubt

                              Hands down the best defensive right fielder to ever play. You must count his japan stats because they have counted the Negro leagues stats in the past for other players. Good average, steals oh yeah didn't he break the single season hit record. I think those are enough reasons to be in.

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