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Ichiro to hall of fame?

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  • #31
    I think he is a fantastic player with a great arm.

    And I know that I have said something completely different about players from Japan, regarding breaking records (should their numbers from Japan be taken with them to MLB?). But I don't think his records from Japan should influence his MLB records. Although the Japanese leagues are quite strong,the level overthere is lower than MLB's.

    But besides this, I think his numbers should be sufficient to enter the HOF.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by KCGHOST
      Ichiro was never held back from competing in the U.S. other than it wasn't practical and he didn't want to.

      Pioneer status for Ichiro is ridiculous. What did he pioneer and what hardships did he face that were of major league baseball's making??
      Actually, Japanese players are REQUIRED to play a certain amount of time (somewhere between 7-10 years) in the Japanese leagues before they are eligible to come to the U.S., so for most of them, it would be too late, and too unpractical to come over here. And as to hardships, he came over to a entirely differnt country on a different continent, where most people did not speak Japanese, and he spoke only limited English, and faced new players, pitchers that he never faced before, and did an amazing job, and did it with class. Maybe you don't see him as a pioneer, but why don't you go ask other fans here, or how about all of his fans in Japan?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by KCGHOST
        I have no problem with Ichiro. If he continues to throw up the numbers he has date for say 15 years then he deserves to be in the HoF.
        That's about another 10 years, and you should know darned well he's unlikely to meet that standard. The truth is, historically, guys with over 2900 MLB hits always make the HOF. I also can't find any cases where an outfielder with a career average over .300 and at least 2800 career hits has failed to make the Hall. It is also true that no matter the era (even the offense heavy early to mid 1890's or 1925-35), outfielders with .300 career averages and 2100-2800 career major league hits have made the HOF 12 out of 16 cases where none of the outfielders slugged over .480 for his career. If Ichiro can make the 2100 hit mark, he's qualified by that standard without giving him a blessed thing for his excellent performance in Japan--and he deserves at least a little. I mean, he didn't pop out of the womb able to hit like he did when he entered the majors--that skill was developed in Japan and honed for several years there before he came over--and he didn't have much choice until the last year or so of his time there. If you want to say Ichiro has to make it to 2100 hits and keep at least a .300 average, I understand your position. But asking for more than that is patently unfair.

        Jim Albright
        Last edited by jalbright; 01-31-2006, 08:10 PM.
        Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
        Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
        A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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        • #34
          I wouldn't be surprised to see him there someday, but I think its too early to tell, he could have some kind of unforeseen injury in the future.

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          • #35
            If Ichiro manages to survive well for the next 3-5 years then yes. I don't think he should get COMPLETE credit for his Japanese numbers (IE count them towards the stats he has in the MLB) but I do think his Japanese numbers should be considered. I'd treat them similarly to a guy who started late because he was in the PCL league during its prime years (IE Earl Averill). Throw in the whole "First Japanese position player in MLB" into the intangibles/misc. section and you get a solid HoF.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Gjm130
              I don't like having his first name on the back of his jersey
              It should be SUZUKI.....not ICHIRO
              I think other players have done it too, so he's not the first one.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by BoSoxDieHard34
                I wouldn't be surprised to see him there someday, but I think its too early to tell.
                Yep, I agree, but he is obviously positioning himself very, very well for the HoF. I hope he can keep it up for another 10 years. And I hope he does it all with the Mariners! :gt

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                • #38
                  Of course...

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                  • #39
                    He's in. The only reason he's marginal now is cause he plays for the M's who haven't reached the playoffs in for-freakin-ever. We can thank Bavasi for that, not Ichiro.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Let's say he ends up with numbers something like this:

                      Hits: 2,700

                      Runs: 1,330

                      Doubles: 300

                      Triples: 100

                      Home Runs: 110

                      RBIs: 710

                      Walks: 570

                      Intentional Walks: 190

                      Stolen Bases: 475

                      Career Average: .325

                      Some pretty decent numbers, but nothing that is super-spectacular I guess. (I think he could actually potentially end up in the top ten all-time for IBBs, though 190 wouldn't do it.)

                      But then there's all the other factors. First full-time Japanese MLB position player. ROY & MVP his first year. All the ASGs & GGs. Beating George Sisler's record. Beating (hopefully) Wee Willie Keeler's record this year. Etc., etc., etc. If he gets Keeler's record this year, then plays at least ten years (and hopefully more like 12-15), and gets anywhere near the hypothetical projected numbers above, I don't see how he can not make it. Unless he tests positive for steroids. If that happened I wouldn't want him in the HOF.

                      Plus his impressive resume in Japanese baseball. I assume he will get at least a little bit of credit for that.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by jalbright View Post
                        That's about another 10 years, and you should know darned well he's unlikely to meet that standard. The truth is, historically, guys with over 2900 MLB hits always make the HOF. I also can't find any cases where an outfielder with a career average over .300 and at least 2800 career hits has failed to make the Hall. It is also true that no matter the era (even the offense heavy early to mid 1890's or 1925-35), outfielders with .300 career averages and 2100-2800 career major league hits have made the HOF 12 out of 16 cases where none of the outfielders slugged over .480 for his career. If Ichiro can make the 2100 hit mark, he's qualified by that standard without giving him a blessed thing for his excellent performance in Japan--and he deserves at least a little. I mean, he didn't pop out of the womb able to hit like he did when he entered the majors--that skill was developed in Japan and honed for several years there before he came over--and he didn't have much choice until the last year or so of his time there. If you want to say Ichiro has to make it to 2100 hits and keep at least a .300 average, I understand your position. But asking for more than that is patently unfair.

                        Jim Albright
                        I think with such low standards for hits you should at least show some power or play a premium position. Plus, he really does not get on base an exceptional lot. A career OPS+ of 116 puts him in a league with Milton Bradley, Ken Caminiti, Eric Chavez, John Jaha, Thurman Munson, Roberto Alomar, Bill White, Alfonso Soriano, Paul Konerko and Lou Whitaker among others.

                        Some played challenging enough positions to warrant consideration. Munson's career was tragically cut short as well. But I do not think with that number out there, he should be in the HOF as a RF.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by NJYankeeFan View Post
                          I think with such low standards for hits you should at least show some power or play a premium position. Plus, he really does not get on base an exceptional lot. A career OPS+ of 116 puts him in a league with Milton Bradley, Ken Caminiti, Eric Chavez, John Jaha, Thurman Munson, Roberto Alomar, Bill White, Alfonso Soriano, Paul Konerko and Lou Whitaker among others.

                          Some played challenging enough positions to warrant consideration. Munson's career was tragically cut short as well. But I do not think with that number out there, he should be in the HOF as a RF.
                          Defense needs to be counted, too.

                          UZR has him at 78.8 runs above average since 2002. That's with time in both RF and CF. 7+ years, there is no data for 2001. That tacks on more than a whole extra win per season.

                          I'm not going to make any personal thoughts on his potential candidacy yet. He hasn't even reached the required 10 years yet. However, I do think this point should be added. :twocents:
                          Last edited by Sarcasmos; 05-13-2009, 08:31 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Seattle1 View Post
                            Let's say he ends up with numbers something like this:

                            Hits: 2,700

                            Runs: 1,330

                            Doubles: 300

                            Triples: 100

                            Home Runs: 110

                            RBIs: 710

                            Walks: 570

                            Intentional Walks: 190

                            Stolen Bases: 475

                            Career Average: .325

                            Some pretty decent numbers, but nothing that is super-spectacular I guess. (I think he could actually potentially end up in the top ten all-time for IBBs, though 190 wouldn't do it.)

                            But then there's all the other factors. First full-time Japanese MLB position player. ROY & MVP his first year. All the ASGs & GGs. Beating George Sisler's record. Beating (hopefully) Wee Willie Keeler's record this year. Etc., etc., etc. If he gets Keeler's record this year, then plays at least ten years (and hopefully more like 12-15), and gets anywhere near the hypothetical projected numbers above, I don't see how he can not make it. Unless he tests positive for steroids. If that happened I wouldn't want him in the HOF.

                            Plus his impressive resume in Japanese baseball. I assume he will get at least a little bit of credit for that.
                            I'd love to see Ichiro add beating the 56 game hit streak to his resume. That'd be impressive, and I really think if anyone can do it, it's him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              'He Can Do EET'!

                              If Ichiro remains healthy and in the lineup fo the rest of the season, he may reach 2,000 hits by the final weeks of the season (in only 9 major league years for an average of about 222 or 223 hits per year). Add his 1250 plus hits in Japan and I think we're looking at our first combined International Hall Of Famer (experience in the USA plus at least one foreign country).
                              Despite his late start, don't count Ichiro out as far as reaching 3,000 hits in the American Major Leagues. The man is a "Hit Machine".

                              -philliesfiend55-

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by philliesfiend55 View Post
                                Despite his late start, don't count Ichiro out as far as reaching 3,000 hits in the American Major Leagues.
                                I agree 3,000 MLB hits is a distinct possibility, but he's got to stay healthy and play into his 40s. The way he keeps in shape it certainly seems possible. We'll see!

                                Comment

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