Damn Yankees

[raysnbran]

I was holding off on starting a thread about what happened on Saturday, when minor league Elliot Johnson of the Rays barrelled into minor league catcher Cervelli of the Yankees, breaking his wrist. Yanks manager Joe Girardi makes a huge deal about the play, basically saying teams should not play that hard in spring training. His view has been universally panned throughout baseball EXCEPT in the 212 area code, as the NY media continues to fan the flames trying to start a controversy.

Shelly Duncan hints at some form of retaliation. Rematch in St Pete today, and the Yankees leave Jeter and A-Rod in Tampa because they knew they would start something and didn't want their prize prima donas hurt. Girardi bypasses Petitte and starts a rookie pitcher who in the first inning throws at the upper half of the body of our top prospect Evan Longoria. No retaliation from the Rays. Duncan singles in the 2nd, and when the OF juggles the ball, he goes towards second. Hesitating just long enough, so that he can go in spikes high into 2B Iwamura's thigh. Gomes comes in from RF to protect his teammate, and then it's on.

I guess Girardi's trying to act the tough guy, and be the anti-Torre in NY now. Torre had such class and wouldn't stoop to Girardi's level. Are the Yankees feeling some pressure from the Rays youngsters not backing down from the All Mighty Yankees like in years past? I guess the bully doesn't like getting smacked around after doing all the smacking for the last decade.

Well, too damn bad. It's not going to be a 2 team division anymore. The Jays are much improved, and we are probably a year or two from contending ourselves, but we will be a tough team to play nonetheless. Get used to it Yankees...and Red Sox you're next, starting tomorrow. Little brother is not going to stand there and take it anymore :grouchy

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Knocking over Cervelli was an ugly and unnecessary play.

What the Yankees did today, was unnecessary and ugly too.

For God's sake, it is Spring Training.

Except Yankee fans, nobody seemed to care when Cervelli was bashed, but now the Yankees went after revenge (which I disapprove) it is the bad Yankees again, all of a sudden.

Tunnel vision by Yankee haters?

[Eddiey]

Knocking over Cervelli was an ugly and unnecessary play.

What the Yankees did today, was unnecessary and ugly too.

For God's sake, it is Spring Training.

Except Yankee fans, nobody seemed to care when Cervelli was bashed, but now the Yankees went after revenge (which I disapprove) it is the bad Yankees again, all of a sudden.

Tunnel vision by Yankee haters?

When a catcher blocks the plate its an acceptable baseball play to knock him down. . There was no intent to injure Cervelli, the injury was unfortunate but not intentional. Sliding with spikes high has only one intent, and thats to injure. Theres a BIG difference between the two plays.

PS: Great post raysnbran.

[raysnbran]

Never been a hater of the Yankees. Our games for the most part have been usually uneventful, unlike our games with the RedSox where there have been numerous brawls over the years. I just don't get the logic of "not playing hard" because it's spring training. You have young players busting their butts to show the manager they can play the game and go all out at all times. If Johnson let up and comes to a stop and lets Cervelli easily tag him out, what is Maddon going to think of Johnson if he's never seen him play before? That he wants to avoid contact and is soft, that's the first thing that would pop into my head. Again, Cervelli had no issue with it. The Mike and Mike show today on ESPN was talking about a spring training game from a few years ago, where the same play happened with Girardi catching and it was no big deal to him (though he didn't get hurt). But now he's got to blow the play all out of proportion, for what? To make himself look like he's sticking up for his players (and forget about Joe while you're at it)?

The two managers need to get together on the side and put an end to it before the umpires do it for them in the next meeting by throwing players out left ad right, as well as managers, and then suspensions get handed down. There have been spring training brawls before, but it's usually about something that happened the previous season. Act mature, managers, and get this taken care of.

[raysnbran]

And another thing, if the Yankees wanted their retaliation they got it right off the bat when Phillips threw and hit Longoria. OK we hurt your guy, we're going to hurt (or try to hurt your top prospect). Fine, that should have ended it. But Duncan had a lot to say on Saturday, so he feels he has to back it up by going in spikes high to 2B. Duncan is to blame for what happened today, not Johnson or Phillips.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

And another thing, if the Yankees wanted their retaliation they got it right off the bat when Phillips threw and hit Longoria. OK we hurt your guy, we're going to hurt (or try to hurt your top prospect). Fine, that should have ended it. But Duncan had a lot to say on Saturday, so he feels he has to back it up by going in spikes high to 2B. Duncan is to blame for what happened today, not Johnson or Phillips.

Like I said, I totally disagree with this attempt for retaliation. If the Yankees wanted to get their revenge, they should have gone after Johnson (I am not sure if he played yesterday). Longoria and Iwamura had no part in it.

@ EddieY:

I agree with you that the play of Duncan was intended to hurt Iwamura; I don't know how much I have to emphasize that. But IMO it is almost as bad to crash into a catcher (who is having the ball and thus is allowed to block the plate!!) during ST, knowing the risk to injure him even before his season has started.

I actually hope that another play like Duncan will take place this season with another team. I am very curious if people will make a big deal out of it either.

[Eddiey]

Like I said, I totally disagree with this attempt for retaliation. If the Yankees wanted to get their revenge, they should have gone after Johnson (I am not sure if he played yesterday). Longoria and Iwamura had no part in it.

@ EddieY:

I agree with you that the play of Duncan was intended to hurt Iwamura; I don't know how much I have to emphasize that. But IMO it is almost as bad to crash into a catcher (who is having the ball and thus is allowed to block the plate!!) during ST, knowing the risk to injure him even before his season has started.

I actually hope that another play like Duncan will take place this season with another team. I am very curious if people will make a big deal out of it either.

My theory is that at any other time there would have been no issue with
Johnson's play at the plate. IMO Girardi is trying to show how tough and
how opposite of Torre he is.

[Imgran]

When a catcher blocks the plate its an acceptable baseball play to knock him down. . There was no intent to injure Cervelli, the injury was unfortunate but not intentional. Sliding with spikes high has only one intent, and thats to injure. Theres a BIG difference between the two plays.

PS: Great post raysnbran.

Agreed, trying to run over the catcher is an ugly but established part of baseball, and one of the two reasons that catchers are armored is to protect them from that kind of play. Entirely different from trying to drive your spikes into a second baseman's leg.

Shelley Duncan looks like he's auditioning to become the next Joe Pepitone on the Yankees -- prime instigator and rabble rouser and not that much of a player to back it up on the field. I'm pretty sure every team in the East is going to keep a close eye on him.

But seriously, anyone who remembers A-Rod's slide where he deliberately went out of his way to elbow Pedroia in the cup or shouting to distract an inexperienced third baseman knows what the Yankees are, this isn't news in that respect. The only news here is that they're taking the Rays seriously enough to play dirty on them. That's good news for the Rays because now they're gonna go out and play at least the first few games against the Yankees with a bit of extra fire.

[Imgran]

My theory is that at any other time there would have been no issue with
Johnson's play at the plate. IMO Girardi is trying to show how tough and
how opposite of Torre he is.

This isn't the first time Girardi's temper has been called into question. I hope for the Yankees' sake that we're not seeing a modern-day Billy Martin on the rise.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

My theory is that at any other time there would have been no issue with
Johnson's play at the plate. IMO Girardi is trying to show how tough and
how opposite of Torre he is.

I am not following Girardi here. IMO the play at the plate was not necessary. I don't need Girardi to form my own opinion.

But you may be right about his attitude.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

This isn't the first time Girardi's temper has been called into question. I hope for the Yankees' sake that we're not seeing a modern-day Billy Martin on the rise.

Mmmmm. A new Bronx Zoo...

Please no.

[ColbyPants]

Get used to it Yankees...and Red Sox you're next, starting tomorrow. Little brother is not going to stand there and take it anymore :grouchy

Ya had me convinced (partially because of the fact that I think Shelly Duncan is a Bully and a hack), until the veiled threat at the end of the post. I have no problem with playing hard, and I honestly want the Rays to do well (well against the Yankees and Blue Jays at least ). But lets keep it clean.

[raysnbran]

Ya had me convinced (partially because of the fact that I think Shelly Duncan is a Bully and a hack), until the veiled threat at the end of the post. I have no problem with playing hard, and I honestly want the Rays to do well (well against the Yankees and Blue Jays at least ). But lets keep it clean.

It wasn't meant as a threat to the Red Sox per se, or their fans, just a statement that this team is brimming with confidence right now, has no plans to back down from any team, and will surprise a lot of people this year. Some teams, like the Yankees apparently, don't appreciate the enthusiasm of youth .

A part of the issue is the Yankees spring train in Tampa, and have a FSL team there all summer, and the city leaders kowtow to King George even though there is a major league team across the bay that plays 81 home games a year. The Rays players resent playing away games at home, and this area will support the Rays once they start winning.

[bigtime39]

If the Rays pitching comes around this season, you guys are going to be a threat...to finish third, and still not make the playoffs.
If my Orioles have a miracle year, they're a threat...to finish third, and not make the playoffs.
If the Blue Jays play to projections, they'll finish third, and not make the playoffs.

I really believe that all three teams should simply refuse to take the field for their first game at Yankee $tadium and Fenway Park this year...and every year, until MLBs powers that be realize that--short of a mid-air collision between the Yankee$ and Red $ox charter planes--the current system condemns these three organizations to dream and aspire to nothing more than finishing third, and not making the playoffs.

Of course, I'm also the guy who semi-facetiously advocated drilling Derek Christ in his first at bat...every time the Orioles face the Yankee$.

[Imgran]

Only Tampa of the teams in the American League East has the excuse of being a smaller town with less local disposable income than Boston. BOTH Toronto AND Baltimore have contended at the expense of this so-called invincible duo in the not-too-distant past even though they were playing with Boston and New York in the same American League East division, and that was largely before the wild-card structure allowed a team to get to the playoffs without winning the dicision.

Furthermore, the Cubs, White Sox, Dodgers, and Angels, all have similar market advantages, both in raw dollars and relative to the bottom teams in their own divisions, and yet they don't exactly dominate their divisions. It's not really all that fundamentally different in the AL East. The difference was that Boston and New York spent their money well and frankly got more than a little lucky, and their GM's had the savvy to sustain the success for awhile, build up the brand, invest the plunder in the farm system, rinse, repeat.


The problem is not market. The problem is how well the other three teams in the division manage their markets and their ability to attract #1 talent and rally the fans behind them. The difference between Boston and New York, and Tampa, Toronto and Baltimore, boils down to the fact that Toronto is unwilling to go out there and try to bring in the very best when opportunity strikes, Baltimore's farm is messed up, and TB, although on the upswing, are still trying to figure out what it takes to win games.

What we really have in the Boston-New York tandem here isn't two titans, it's one decently-run large market team coming off a dynasty and one extremely well-run mid-market team that plays way above its head financially because it has historic levels of fan loyalty just now off the backs of 2 WS tritles within 4 years, and 3 teams that have average or above average management but nothing special -- those kinds are going to wind up in the middle of the division no matter who's number one.