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  • My Thoughts on Recent Events

    Ok, it's been a while. Been busy with baseball but I thought I'd post all my thoughts in one thread.

    First, on the entire Doc fiasco. I'll try and not let my man love for Roy get in the way of my judgment and I think JP is going to do the right thing, either by trading him or not. Riccardi is in a fine position; he doesn't have to deal Halladay and he is in no rush. If it happens this year or in the offseason, I wouldn't think we'd end up in a situation like the Twins where they rushed a Santana deal and didn't get the best of deals.

    Now, there is the issue of whether JP should be making the deal or not. I always think it's a bad idea to let a GM on the hot seat trade a star player away because they often panic and maybe get too many veterans back to help the team (and their job) short term and not the prospects required for the long term development of the club. But JP does not seem like that kind of GM that is real concerned in saving his own ass. He has drafted well lately and the scouting staff has judged prospects real good as of late. Hopefully if a deal is made, that trend will continue.

    Would I trade Roy? I really don't know, too be honest. If we have the resources to keep him around, I'd say sign him up. They haven't been able to lately but hopefully a competitive team could be built around. Really, he might be the best pitcher in the league to build a team around.

    But if he gets traded, I think the pitching staff will be fine. Marcum will be back next season and Romero has been excellent. There is plenty there but no real ace. Hopefully one would develop or the offence will have to pick up the slack. But I don't think the starting staff would develop into a major problem without Roy.

    If they trade Halladay, unload everything. God love Scott Rolen but trade him, he'd be useless towards building a team for the future. His value is high right now, one must think, and Bautista has been good enough to play at third until something better comes along. Wells isn't going to get moved but Rios might have some value. Having said that, move for the right deal. Don't trade Rolen for some minor league filler. Do something that will help the big league club in the future.

    Scutaro is interesting, as to what to do with him. His contract is up and I think if hes affordable, resign him. With Scutaro locked up, the top three in the order is solidified for a while (Scuts, Hill, and Lind). Id hate to see him walk for nothing.

    Overall, the season has been getting disappointing and depressing because of the trade talk. Love Millar in the clubhouse but he has been brutal at the plate this season. And David Delluci has actually made me start wanting Mench or Wilkerson. There has got to be something better then those two. They arent contributing anything.

    Ill give a shout out to Raul Chavez, one of JPs low key offseason signings. Hes been good for us so far this year with an adequate bat. He plays good defense, which hasnt been the case for many of the Jays catchers over the last few years.

    Kind of hard to see the big guy, BJ Ryan get cut. Instead of the dissapointing BJ we had seen in recent years, Ill try to remember his first year here, him trotting out of the bullpen, coming in with dynamite stuff and shutting the opponents down in order. You just got to cut your losses though and JP did what he had to do.

    The bullpen has been an overall abomination this season. Downs has been good in the closers role and Frasor has pitched well but thats been about it. Carlson and League need to shape up or else someone has to red tag them. Hard to believe they were so good last year and not so much this year.

    Got some things off the chest today, happy to answer anything. Might not make a bunch of sense but I hope it does.

  • #2
    Hey, First post. Been awaiting activation for 2 weeks!

    Long Time Jays fan.

    I have always been a fan to a team first and the Players second, that way I avoid personal attachments to players like Halladay and understand the reason Management does what it does.

    I agree that right now is the best possible time to Trade Halladay for a variety of factors that have mostly been discussed to date. His remaining contract length, the Supply/Demand of this years group and our ability to retain him past 2010.

    With the likely return we are to get for Halladay in combination to our already strong farm system. Adding the few major league pieces could go a long way to quickly establishing a core group to build a winner around!

    Remember, great players come and go but the Team is forever! The Jays have a history of developing Franchise Pitchers, I have no reason to believe we wont again.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Big_Mac View Post
      Now, there is the issue of whether JP should be making the deal or not. I always think it's a bad idea to let a GM on the hot seat trade a star player away because they often panic and maybe get too many veterans back to help the team (and their job) short term and not the prospects required for the long term development of the club.
      What I think is encouraging about trading Doc this year is the increased pro scouting staff. They should be able to better evaluate more players to really get a good grasp of what's out there and what we want to target. Though not a huge concern, but consider also that the Jays are looking for close to major-league talent right now along with maybe 1 or 2 lower level prospects because they do believe they can comopete in 2010. It's not like we're completely rebuilding right now because of how many expiring contracts we have next year, so it'll be interesting to see what we get back for Doc.

      Originally posted by Big_Mac View Post
      But if he gets traded, I think the pitching staff will be fine. Marcum will be back next season and Romero has been excellent. There is plenty there but no real ace. Hopefully one would develop or the offence will have to pick up the slack. But I don't think the starting staff would develop into a major problem without Roy.
      I've said it before (don't remember if it was here or not), but as long as we have Arnsberg, I really do feel confident about our pitching staff. Look at what he was able to do with Romero. Years of disappointment in the minors, then Arnsberg takes him aside for 2 weeks and look at what he's done under Arnie for really the entire season (except for that unfortunate sneezing incident that sidelined him...that's really got to be embaressing).

      Originally posted by Big_Mac View Post
      If they trade Halladay, unload everything. God love Scott Rolen but trade him, he'd be useless towards building a team for the future. His value is high right now, one must think, and Bautista has been good enough to play at third until something better comes along. Wells isn't going to get moved but Rios might have some value. Having said that, move for the right deal. Don't trade Rolen for some minor league filler. Do something that will help the big league club in the future.
      There are rumours about moving Rolen, but he has a massive contract and it's hard to find a buyer for him right now. I said all along that the reason I saw JP bringing in Bautista is to start at 3B when Scott leaves the Jays, so I obviously think he is starting capable because he is solid on defence and has some pop in that bat. I think if Rolen gets moved, it'll be next year when teams won't have to swallow the entire like 16 million contract.

      Originally posted by Big_Mac View Post
      Scutaro is interesting, as to what to do with him. His contract is up and I think if hes affordable, resign him. With Scutaro locked up, the top three in the order is solidified for a while (Scuts, Hill, and Lind). Id hate to see him walk for nothing.
      I really hope that loyalty will bring Scutaro back with the Jays. With JP trading for him and bringing him over from Oakland (hey...who hasn't he brought in from Oakland ) and then really getting him a chance to start everyday, I think he'll have a soft spot for both Gaston and JP and there isn't much challenging him for that starting SS position, I think/hope he'll be back.

      Originally posted by Big_Mac View Post
      And David Delluci has actually made me start wanting Mench or Wilkerson. There has got to be something better then those two. They arent contributing anything.
      I actually liked Russ Adams up here more than Delluci. I really want to give Russ another real shot before letting him go to another system at the end of the year.

      Originally posted by Big_Mac View Post
      Ill give a shout out to Raul Chavez, one of JPs low key offseason signings. Hes been good for us so far this year with an adequate bat. He plays good defense, which hasnt been the case for many of the Jays catchers over the last few years.
      Raul was the guy I wanted to start the season as the Jay's back-up catcher. He's the best defensive catcher in really our entire organization outside of maybe Brian Jeroloman. The thing I like best about him is his bat control, more specifically his bunting. I don't think Arencibia is ready to come up next year, so I'd love to see Chavez back either platooning or backing up whoever our starting catcher will be.

      Originally posted by Big_Mac View Post
      Carlson and League need to shape up or else someone has to red tag them. Hard to believe they were so good last year and not so much this year.
      I think the thing with Carlson is his workload. I think he's like either tops or close to being tops in the majors in appearances. He's pitched substantially more innings this year as well and its not just appearances. With Downs closing, Ryan struggling/in the minors/released, Tallet was in the rotation for a long time, Carlson was really our only lefty specialist and I think the workload is catching up to him.

      Comment


      • #4
        I've said it many times before, but if and thats a big IF we can gt rid of Wells, that frees up roughly $20 million for the next 5 seasons. With the recession now, you can basically sign 2 hard hitters for $10 million a season. I don't like power hitters who can't hit for average, but Washington did get Dunn for $10 mil a season and hes good for 30-40 HRs 100 RBI a year. Although trying to get rid of $20 mil a year, we will most likely have to eat up a contract from the other team. I'm hoping the Mets, with all their injured players would want him ! He might be a throw in with Halladay, but we wouldn't get much in return because of all that salary going one way.

        Trading Halladay will free up $15 million and with so many pitchers being free agents after next season, they could probably sign one good one out of the bunch.

        As much as I like Rolen, he is not worth the $11 or $12 million a year hes making and I really can't see him going anywhere with that contract if he expects to be the everyday 3B. If he was in the last year of it, Boston would probably want him to give Lowell some days off.

        Overbay has been a disappointment for the past 3 seasons and is definitely not worth the $7 million a year hes getting. I can't see a team wanting him at $7 mil next year.

        Rios has also been a very big disappointment. If we could get rid of him, I'd be all for that. Snider will be up from the minors soon and can easily replace him.

        I hope they keep Barajas. He's been great all year. He can throw out runners, can actually hit and is great with the young pitchers. Resign him !

        Scutaro has been great all year. I hope they keep him, but the Red Sox haven't had a good SS in 5 or so years, so there is a chance he could be gone... who knows. I would resign him. Hes not your typical lead off guy, but he gets the job done. The only thing bad I can say about him is the amount of stolen bases he has. The guy can run and should be stealing more often.

        And finally, *IF* Marcum and McGowan come back and pitch like they did last year, you have a starting rotation with those two, Romero, Rzepcynski possibly and the 5th starter could be Richmond or even Tallet. Thats not a bad rotation. I'm not sure when Litsch is coming back, so I can't call him our 5th starter. We have too many starting pitchers and I think all of those guys are capable of getting the job done. I just don't like the bullpen. Downs and Frasor have been great, but Downs is best suited as a set up man. We need a top closer and then Downs as a set up man, with Frasor in the 7th inning. For the love of god, get rid of Carlson and League. Those guys are a waste of space out there. I'd rather take my chances with Camp and maybe bring up Wolfe and give him another chance... or better yet, put Janssen back the bullpen and throw one of those extra starters in there too. I'm not sure, but I think J.J Putz is a free agent after this year ? After him arm trouble, maybe the Jays can take a chance and sign him to a dirt cheap contract. They are not willing to pay BJ Ryan money anymore for a closer, so this might be a cost effective option.

        So like I say, if those salaries can be dumped, I think its for the better. I kind of went off on a little rant there, but you get the drift
        http://www.blackbetsy.com/movies/joeatbat.mpg

        Comment


        • #5
          Big Mac, I've got some things I've been thinking about for a while as well. I agree with you for the most part.

          Like I wrote in another thread, I think we're pretty well set-up for next year. We have a boat-load of pitching, which should satisfy the needs of both the rotation and the bullpen. Thus, we didn't need to unload Halladay, and I'm glad we didn't. Riccardi wanted an A+++ package, and he didn't get it. So we go forward and take one last shot at it next year.

          I would say that the direction this franchise is going is this: Beeston likely has a president in mind. The president is going to want his own GM and his own coach (in all likelihood... I mean most do). So Beeston's gonna sit on this guy until about June or July of 2010. At that point, Beeston will make the call on whether we're in it or not. If we're in it, he tells JP "This is it, it's time to go for it. Deal some pitching to strengthen us for a playoff run." However, if we're out of it (please, no jokes about the odds of that haha) then Beeston replaces himself with the new president, JP and Cito are promptly fired, and the new GM blows the team to pieces.

          The only problem is that to go for it in 2010 is going to require two things (IMO), a DH and a SS. That way we have Lind in LF, Rios in CF (hopefully) and Wells in RF, with Encarnacion at 3B (maybe in a platoon). Scutaro may feel loyal to the organization, but he sure isn't going to take a 1-year deal. We might be able to get a DH on the cheap (Carlos Delgado anyone??) but the SS may be an impediment to going for it. That's also why Halladay made sense to keep, because signing a John Lackey or someone of the like puts us in another contract for 3-5 years, which would be an impediment to blowing things up should we be out of it in June 2010. I also like the JJ Putz suggestion, as he might come on the cheap for only 1 or 2 years (but at the same time, I'm sure there are 5 GM's saying that... and we know how supply and demand works).

          One last thing. We can't trade Vernon Wells. We would get less than Mike Sirotka for him, and he would inevitably find his stroke with his new team (especially if that team were the NYYankees). I think we need to keep him and do whatever it takes to get him back to a 2003 level (heck, I'd take '06 Vernon at this point). Trading players at their absolute lowest should be a last resort, and I really don't think we're there yet. Or maybe I just hope we're not there...

          Why was I born a Toronto sports fan...
          Last edited by Richmond Hill Phoenix; 08-03-2009, 11:44 AM.
          WAMCO!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Richmond Hill Phoenix View Post
            Big Mac, I've got some things I've been thinking about for a while as well. I agree with you for the most part.

            Like I wrote in another thread, I think we're pretty well set-up for next year. We have a boat-load of pitching, which should satisfy the needs of both the rotation and the bullpen. Thus, we didn't need to unload Halladay, and I'm glad we didn't. Riccardi wanted an A+++ package, and he didn't get it. So we go forward and take one last shot at it next year.

            I would say that the direction this franchise is going is this: Beeston likely has a president in mind. The president is going to want his own GM and his own coach (in all likelihood... I mean most do). So Beeston's gonna sit on this guy until about June or July of 2010. At that point, Beeston will make the call on whether we're in it or not. If we're in it, he tells JP "This is it, it's time to go for it. Deal some pitching to strengthen us for a playoff run." However, if we're out of it (please, no jokes about the odds of that haha) then Beeston replaces himself with the new president, JP and Cito are promptly fired, and the new GM blows the team to pieces.

            The only problem is that to go for it in 2010 is going to require two things (IMO), a DH and a SS. That way we have Lind in LF, Rios in CF (hopefully) and Wells in RF, with Encarnacion at 3B (maybe in a platoon). Scutaro may feel loyal to the organization, but he sure isn't going to take a 1-year deal. We might be able to get a DH on the cheap (Carlos Delgado anyone??) but the SS may be an impediment to going for it. That's also why Halladay made sense to keep, because signing a John Lackey or someone of the like puts us in another contract for 3-5 years, which would be an impediment to blowing things up should we be out of it in June 2010. I also like the JJ Putz suggestion, as he might come on the cheap for only 1 or 2 years (but at the same time, I'm sure there are 5 GM's saying that... and we know how supply and demand works).

            One last thing. We can't trade Vernon Wells. We would get less than Mike Sirotka for him, and he would inevitably find his stroke with his new team (especially if that team were the NYYankees). I think we need to keep him and do whatever it takes to get him back to a 2003 level (heck, I'd take '06 Vernon at this point). Trading players at their absolute lowest should be a last resort, and I really don't think we're there yet. Or maybe I just hope we're not there...

            Why was I born a Toronto sports fan...
            I dont know about yourself, but I got to see 2 championship Jay's teams (albeit while I was young)

            For a decade we have been the envy of Red Sox and Cubs fans (until the sox recent win)

            Take Pride in your Blue Jays!

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, my dad arrived in Canada from England in 1967, 34 days after the Leafs won their final Stanley Cup. He might have been the longest-standing Leafs fan who was old enough to remember the cup but wasn't here to witness it (he was 9 at the time, so he has the crown over any 1967 babies, since I doubt they remember).

              And as for the WS, I was 2 and 3 years old at the time. I'm told that I watched the games, but I have no recollection. So woe is me... haha. Welcome to the pity party.
              WAMCO!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Richmond Hill Phoenix View Post
                Well, my dad arrived in Canada from England in 1967, 34 days after the Leafs won their final Stanley Cup. He might have been the longest-standing Leafs fan who was old enough to remember the cup but wasn't here to witness it (he was 9 at the time, so he has the crown over any 1967 babies, since I doubt they remember).

                And as for the WS, I was 2 and 3 years old at the time. I'm told that I watched the games, but I have no recollection. So woe is me... haha. Welcome to the pity party.
                I was 6 and 7 when they won the WS in 92 and 93 and I can remember watching 10 or so regular season games on TV back then and especially the ALCS and World Series games I remember the WS games more because I was allowed to stay up late to watch them, unlike the regular season lol. The earliest recollection of watching a Jays game must have been in 1989 or 90 when I was 3 and 4 in those years. I just remember seeing some Jays hitter at bat and getting a hit. As a Jays fan, I consider myself very lucky to remember watching those ALCS and WS games. I have other memories of Jays games that were possibly from 1991, but its kind of impossible to date them.

                I thought it was neat that I remembered those games, until my uncle told me that he saw Babe Ruth hit a HR on Toronto Island into the water. I think that was his first professional HR he was referring to in 1914 when he was a kid ! He must have been the last living person who witnessed that.
                http://www.blackbetsy.com/movies/joeatbat.mpg

                Comment

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