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Pro J.P. Riccardi Thread

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  • Pro J.P. Riccardi Thread

    I know most people are anti Riccardi and I cant personally figure out why. I just wanted to start a thread so we could actually discuss moves made and talk it over whether it was positive or Negative.


    No GM is perfect and as such you will never find a GM who has done the job for a couple of season who is 100% on all moves.

    So off the top of my head ill get the ball rolling.


    JP's first move as GM.


    Billy Koch for Eric Hinske and Justin Miller


    I would chalk it up to a even trade. While Eric Hinske went on to win Rookie of the year, Billy Koch also had a superb season of 40+ saves. However Hinske like Koch both had drop offs in performance after that and Miller never ammounted to anything. I have therefore rate the trade a "B" as it filled a need and was a logical move.

  • #2
    Simply Post a Move Riccardi has made or Quote a response to a point made. This way we keep the ball going rather then resorting to name calling and ect.

    Comment


    • #3
      You Can't Figure Out Why?

      Seriously? Um ok lets evaluate:

      Here is a move:

      Felipe Lopez for John-Ford Griffin and Jason Arnold. Lets give this one an F since neither one did anything at the major league level and Lopez made the all-star team.

      Comment


      • #4
        Another move

        Paul Quantrill and Cesar Isturis for a Luke Propkepec and Chad Ricketts (the Dodgers offered Eric Gagne instead of Luke he said no). F

        Comment


        • #5
          Yet another move

          Giving BJ Ryan the largest contract for a closer in the history of baseball, when he had only one year as a closer. Grade F
          Last edited by aqib; 08-05-2009, 10:46 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Troy Glaus

            Orlando Hudson and Miguel Batista for Troy Glaus. Imagine having Hudson at second and Hill at his natural position of SS? Or even third?

            Grade F

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by aqib View Post
              Giving BJ Ryan the largest contract for a closer in the history of baseball, when he had only one year as a closer. Grade F
              Effective up until his Injury

              Its not JP's fault that he got Injured. Up until that point, he was a A closer, so I would rate that move a B

              Blaming Riccardi for a player getting an Injury is like blaming the Orioles GM for not resigning him, therefore making it his fault he came here.
              Last edited by Woodman19; 08-05-2009, 11:12 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by aqib View Post
                Orlando Hudson and Miguel Batista for Troy Glaus. Imagine having Hudson at second and Hill at his natural position of SS? Or even third?

                Grade F
                He turned around and dealt Glaus for Rolen

                A+ move

                B overall, Glaus wasnt terrible here

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by aqib View Post
                  Orlando Hudson and Miguel Batista for Troy Glaus. Imagine having Hudson at second and Hill at his natural position of SS? Or even third?

                  Grade F
                  I disagree with giving that one an F. I loved Hudson and was really sad to see him go, but the Blue Jays really needed Glaus' pop. In 2005, the Blue only hay had one player hit more than 20 home runs. It's not easy to compete when you're second leading home run getter in Shea Hillenbrand with 18. They needed a power hitter, and they needed a veteran in the rotation. They got both of those plus a prospect (who fizzled out.)

                  Vernon Wells had one of the best seasons of his career with Glaus in the line up offering protection, and somehow Batista managed to save 30 games (which is a mystery me.)

                  This trade would have looked better if Glaus had been made a full time DH in 2007 and Santos lived up to first round pick potential.

                  Overall, you're right this trade didn't end up working out so well, but it's definitely not an F. I'd go as far to say it's a C.

                  How about trading Bubbie Buzachero for Brian Tallet.

                  Or signing Scott Downs off the scrap heap. Both of those moves worked ot fairly well.

                  Or Shea Hillenbrand and Vinnie Chulk for Jeremy Accardo.
                  Like Maple Syrup, Canada's evil oozes over the United States.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A valuable resource for this thread: http://danjulien.atspace.com/ricciardi.htm

                    It is an evaluation of JP Ricciardi's first 23 trades as Blue Jays GM, from offseason 2001 until the beginning of the 2006 season. I'm not sure what has happened to Mr. Dan Julien since then, but I wish he was still active in updating "The Ricciardi Project". Maybe we can continue it here...

                    On the right hand toolbar of his blog (which has been dormant since Jan 6th, 2008) there are links to a few other interesting pieces of research. He also has JP's FA signings for the same time period, a similar analysis of the trades of Billy Beane, Theo Epstein and Paul DePodesta.

                    In looking at all of them, it's clear that JP has made the most 'bad' trades out of the 4. But this is comparing him to three GM's that are considered to be among the most successful in baseball, so keep that in mind. At the same time, it isn't like the other three went without making a bad trade either...

                    Epstein: Freddy Sanchez and cash to PITT for S. Sauerbeck and J. Suppan.
                    Beane: Jeremy Bonderman, Carlos Pena, Franklyn German to Detroit for Ted Lilly, JF Griffin and Jason Arnold
                    DePodesta: Dave Roberts to the Red Sox for Henri Stanley

                    Overall, I would say that JP takes more heat than he deserves. He has got the Jays to a point where they have the most-envied young pitching talent in the bigs, and is just starting to develop some position players as well. Sure, it took him longer than we'd hoped (if someone mentions the 5-year plan i'm gonna lose it...) but I think we're in a decent position now. Like I've said in other threads, he gets until next years trading deadline in my eyes. At that point we're either going for it or selling the farm.
                    Last edited by Richmond Hill Phoenix; 08-08-2009, 08:08 AM.
                    WAMCO!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Woodman19 View Post
                      Effective up until his Injury

                      Its not JP's fault that he got Injured. Up until that point, he was a A closer, so I would rate that move a B

                      Blaming Riccardi for a player getting an Injury is like blaming the Orioles GM for not resigning him, therefore making it his fault he came here.
                      Come on dude there is a reason why other then the Yankees with Mariano Rivera no one goes 5 years for a closer. There were a lot of people who were against this move the second it was made. We got 2 years out of him and are paying for 5, how the hell do you rate that a B?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by aqib View Post
                        Come on dude there is a reason why other then the Yankees with Mariano Rivera no one goes 5 years for a closer. There were a lot of people who were against this move the second it was made. We got 2 years out of him and are paying for 5, how the hell do you rate that a B?
                        I remember people complaining about AJ Burnett once we signed him, We actually got alot of Innings out of him and he performed well.

                        BJ Also played well for us and was effective prior to blowing out his arm. Contracts are a moot point if a player gets hurt. It doesnt matter if somone has the most efficient contract in the league, once they get hurt they arent worth it. It certainly isnt JP's fault that BJ Ryan's arm blew off, fact is. Without paying him money on a long term deal, he wouldnt of came here.

                        Free Agents dont exactly come knocking to play here anymore, you have to overpay and give them a longer term deal. with BJ, we got 2 out of the 4 years (lost 1 due to insurance paying). It wasnt Ideal given the circumstances, however it is hardly the fault of JP Riccardi of it happening, Therefore thats why I ranked it a B. We had a hole in the Pen at the time and he went spending the money the owner at the time said he would keep expanding.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Woodman, I'm not sure you can say that JP is entirely without fault in this case. While it certainly isn't 100% his fault, as the GM he inevitably takes on a portion of the responsibility for any contracts tendered and signed. It would seem to me that for most GM's, and I think most everyone would agree, the #1 risk with signing FA pitchers is the risk of injury. I'm not going to say that JP could have forseen this, and I understand that if he hadn't gone to 5 years BJ would have signed elsewhere. But you have to wonder, was there a reason other GM's weren't willing to give that length of term? I'm not saying that other GM's had a specific reason to worry about BJ in terms of health, but I wonder whether it was a good idea to sign a closer with one year of experience in the role to such a hefty contract...

                          It's a difficult contract to rate when you combine all the factors, especially considering how good he was for us in 2006 (I'm also not a huge fans of rating things like this to begin with... but whatever, you only live once haha). But in the end I can't give JP more than a D+ for this signing, considering we're paying the guy what, almost $15 million (or is it more?!) to NOT play for us?
                          WAMCO!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm sorry, i don't think J.P. is a good GM at all. he's not the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel like Drayton Moore of the Royals for example, but he's certainly lower tier. He has made a couple decent scrap heap acquisions like Scott Downs and Marco Scutaro and Jesse Carlson. But overall, he's made plenty of errors; most of which have to do with overpaying and or ineffective FA signings. Case in point:

                            Frank Thomas: Signed for 2 years/ $18M + option; cut early in second year after slow start so that player option couldn't be exercised for $10 in 2009 (min. at bat clause)

                            B.J. Ryan: Overpaid for B.J. Ryan, who enjoyed nice success the previous 2 years. Was never a high velocity guy, so giving 5 years at $12 per year average was very risky.

                            Vernon Wells: really only had 2 relatively big years surrounded by mediocre ones, yet becomes one of the highest paid players in baseball? My head almost exploded when I initially heard how much he signed for.

                            Ineffective signings:
                            Royce Clayton, Mike Bordick, Shea Hillenbrand, Toma Ohka, brad Wilkerson, Kevin Millar, Jose Bautista, Victor Zambrano, Kevin Mench, Michael Barrett ETC.

                            Bungling of The Roy Halladay Trade: As much as I love Roy, we needed top positional player talent for the rebuilding process, which continues to be in perpetual HALF-ASS mode by not making this deal. The Jays needed to commit to rebuilding the thin positional player base to go along with the decent young starting pitching, yet by not trading Roy, we get a $15.75M pitcher for next year on a .500 team (or worse). It made no sense to ask for the moon and receive nothing. Absolutely no question Riccardi should have traded Roy.

                            Bungling of Media Relations: Riccardi is just not liked by the media, but it goes beyond this. He actually hurts the teams chances of signing quality free agents by occassionally chastizing them in public. Remember the comments he made about Adam Dunn? This really just speaks for itself:

                            Ricciardi didn’t leave that as his last verbal miscue. During this past season, he was on the air during his regular phone-in postgame radio show. A caller asked about a possible trade for Adam Dunn. Ricciardi commented:

                            “He’s a lifetime .230, .240 hitter that strikes out a ton and hits home runs,” to which the caller quipped “Yes, he hits home runs, which none of the Toronto Blue Jays are doing.”

                            Ricciardi fired back with the following:

                            “Do you know the guy doesn’t really like baseball that much? Do you know the guy doesn’t have a passion to play the game that much? How much do you know about the player? There’s a reason why you’re attracted to some players and there’s a reason why you’re not attracted to some players. I don’t think you’d be very happy if we brought Adam Dunn here … We’ve done our homework on guys like Adam Dunn and there’s a reason why we don’t want Adam Dunn. I don’t want to get into specifics.”

                            Riccardi needs to STFU. Adam Dunn would have been our best offensive player this year.

                            Drafting of Players: Very mediocre to say the least. The system under Riccardi has usually been in the bottom third of MLB. His most notable successes since his tenure in 2002 are Aaron Hill and Adam Lind (not including Romero/Litsch/Cecil as a successes just yet). Really, if that's the best homegrown talent you can muster in 8 years at the helm, that's extremely poor.


                            Bottom Line: I cannot defend Riccardi is any way, shape or manner. In my opinion he's been a very poor G.M., and we can't use payroll as an excuse because it has been as high as $100M - definitely enough to compete. The fact is Riccardi has not made enough quality FA signings or allocated more to FA signing in a helpful manner. He continually oversees subpar drafts and he's hit-or-miss in evaluating talent. I really hope Riccardi gets replaced THIS YEAR because the Jays could do better. He's had his shot and the Jays are not competing in the foreseeable future so he is owed nothing.
                            Last edited by Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan; 08-08-2009, 04:37 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Jason for Jason

                              How about this JP Ricciardi player trade.

                              Jason Werth to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Jason Frasor.

                              Comment

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